this is on a smaller level, but back in the day, the ITR was the "track model" for integras, but people still upgraded them to make them "track worthy". whether you have base or sport, if you're hardcore, you'll always want more. well, at any rate, i wish i could afford both touring and sport, but i'd really like the navi in my brand new car. having all the tech stuff in the interior just makes me feel more rewarded for all my hard work. i really wish nissan would allow us to just stick the navi into the base models though.

oh, and yes, the "S-mode" is the stupidest thing i've ever seen in a manual car.

It's a good thing for teaching new people, and it probably makes stop and go traffic just a bit more bearable.

I just don't see how having a machine blip the throttle for you would be conducive to learning. Might as well have the car turn for you too.

:rofl2:
Ummm, it is a great way for those less experienced on the track to be able to jump in have one less thing in the equation to worry about. As you progress you can turn it off and learn to heal/toe properly. Remember the feature is either 100% on or off so if you do not like it just turn it off. Also, I will say that SRM is great for traffic in a manual, have to do less work (not the same as an automatic though).

I didnt see the point in waiting for a sports package when my base already had the spoilers and splash guards.

Disagree.

99.9% of people are not going to upgrade the LSD or brakes on these cars. And the wheels are actually manufactured very well, although most people will swap them out for heavier, better looking ones.

There's no "problem" with having the 370z in an automatic. It's quicker ;)

That was my thinking too, but I got my 370z under invoice, else I'd have to pay extra to have them locate and pull one in to where the price would have been the same.

Now my significant other wants to drive it, which I'm sure she's 75% joking 25% not - still, it's the 25% that's getting on my nerves a bit.

new people will lean on the technology supplied. This has been done many times over. If you're going to learn something, why not learn it the right way from the start - by actually doing it? Seriously if someone is gonna get into racing and doesnt know how to blip the throttle, maybe they should think twice about it or do more research. This is something you can practice during daily driving! S-mode ftl.

:rofl2:
So because we have technology which makes it easier to track your car and focus on other issues, "new" drivers should not even attempt unless they learn the old way? I am all for learning things which help me fundamentally understand my car better, and heel/toe kinda is one but not a major one in my opinion. I would gladly turn on SRM and worry about how to handle my car better than have to worry about blipping the throttle and making sure I am taking the next turn properly.

New technology will always make things easier or more efficient. Now if it goes against what many have spent years learning and perfecting I can understand them being upset when some new kid comes in thinking he is hot stuff, but on the other side I would embrace the fact that I have access to this technology also and am already better than this new kid. Just because he does not have to heel/toe does not magically make him better or able to handle his car.

I got my 370z Black 6 Speed Touring with Nav .. I would of course love the Sports Package and think for the price offered it's a great upgrade but, in my case I got my Z under invoice with all the features I wanted ... I enjoy the Navi and don't get lost as much as I usually do (haha) .. I don't mind driving without S-Mode and even if I did get the Sports Package would probably end up changing my rims anyways... I think the brakes are decent especially for daily driving .. I'm happy with my ride ...

[rant] This is a ridiculous statement... how about abs is that for ******* too?... why not just let people have fun at the track and encourage them to be part of the sport instead of acting as if it is some elite club that no one should join until they master skills of the past ? should everyone learn to sprint to their cars too ? [/rant]

All: SRM is a great tool for the track... let's you learn at a pace, helps with reliability of your clutch and drivetrain, is a safety feature in that you're less likely to lose control in a down shift.... don't like it, turn it off

:iagree:

ok, i think we're at a bit of a headbutting here. what i don't understand is why someone who would like to learn how to drive stick and eventually race, would turn that thing on. isn't a big fun part of driving/racing stick is learning how to do things yourself? i mean, it's not rocket science. watch video or learn from someone human, get in car, turn on car, go to a track or wherever, have fun learning. what's the point really? you're still going to have to learn the right times to brake and downshift. might as well throw in rev-matching in there too. it SERIOUSLY doesn't take that long to learn how to rev-match. sure as hell shouldn't take enough time to have to learn it from SRM. you can learn how to match going under 35mph during daily driving. how the hell can you lose control learning that way? gotta have some terrible coordination to do that. also, there's nothing really wrong with leaning on technology. what i'm saying is, if someone who's new learns on the new tech and knows it's there to save his ***, it'll be harder to learn the old ways! this is precisely why so many people don't know how to pump brakes without ABS. it's not that ABS is bad, it's just there. get my drift?

if i'm seriously the only one that thinks like this, then never mind. i guess it's just a personal gripe. still want the Z with or without SRM/sport package. :driving:

Everyone understands it's good to learn everything, the point of what everyone was saying is that they can learn manual driving, then once they're good enough to not be worried with learning when to / remembering to shift. Then once they've got simple accelerating down, they can move onto downshifting, which is reasonably more difficult than simply shifting up.

SRM is a welcome addition for anyone who is just in need of less work in traffic, or someone who is learning the very ropes of manual. I think the two hardest things to learn would be starts from a dead stop, and also doing it fast enough to avoid coasting downhill too much. Learning the perfect clutch engagement point for one car takes time, and once you've got one car mastered, you know the exact feel of when the clutch grabs. Then you can apply to other manual cars without much difficulty.

I'm still somewhat new to manual (did not learn in the Z, but did stall a few times when starting from a dead stop), and I just don't have all the time in the world to practice downshifting, and also the fact that there's no open, low traffic road to do it on. Downshifting for me will have to wait until I find a relatively open road, hopefully with no police trying to ticket me on "reckless driving" while trying to learn proper heel-toe or single clutch... damn this place, there's no open road! Oh, and I don't want to destroy my clutch, even if it is covered under warranty (and will still probably be replaced by a high pressure clutch in time).

Sometimes with the advancement of technology you can discard with the old ways. That's innovation. Just because someone does not learn to heel toe does not mean he can't be a good track driver. I'd bet a few years down the line when most race cars are equipped with SRM making it the norm there will be some pretty good race drives who would not know how to heel toe because they simply don't need to.

I still think that heel-toeing is actually more efficient in a good driver, mainly because it allows for constant change into gears. A good driver knows what is happening, SRM can only predict.

Just look at the SMG tranny...most exotics now use SMG discarding the need for operating the clutch pedal... just another example of technological innovation...

I think in a society where technology is contributing more to laziness ... well, in some cases, I still advocate the straight use of a clutch and gearshift. I'd much rather have that tactile pleasure than having a machine do it for me. There also happen to be ... something that my friend told me about, that a drive by wire system, and also an electronically controlled throttle may cause problems and otherwise be a detrimental thing on a performance car. I don't specifically remember why he said it was.

Also, more computers = more chance of sudden catastrophic failure, and possibly, global conquer by computerized artificial intelligence realizing they're better than humans. (I, Robot, anyone?)

I think having the S mode as an option is great. Use it if you like, the ability to turn it off is priceless. I also love how it remembers the setting from the last time you start up, not some default setting like VDC.

Arguing over this is like talking about VDC, some people will swear by it and some people won't touch it with a 10 foot pole

Got a base model. Knew I was going to do upgrades. Like the old geezer earlier, didn't need most of the extra stuff. Got NISMOS shocks, springs, sway bar and rear spoiler. Got Sport brakes from Concept Z . Good price. Next will be Quaife dif., Stillen Oil cooler, headers, HFC and intake. I think old guys who started on MGAs, Alfas, etc. pride ourselves on the heel-toe stuff.

sounds like a great build blackbird, hope you start a journal in member gallery ! :)

agree, lots of pride involved in the heel-toe debate... i think that's part of the issue... also it IS fun and satisfying when you do it well... I'm just trying to temper the view point that "you shouldn't bother racing unless..."... that kind of thing just hits me wrong... we can all agree that we want more people in the sport right ? no need to discourage anyone

yeah, the srm is a track-aid tool and also a overall driver aid as:
the m mode is for the m3s, m5s, and m6s. Nobody calls them ******* at the track.
the abs is for all braking situations.
the bimmer's reverse roll-lock system is for their manual trannies.
the traction control system is for all cars equipped with it.
I'm willing to bet that there will be atleast one case in the history of the 370z era in which a life will be saved by the srm. I can think of many scenarios how this can happen. I'm all for it and i think it's a phenomenal system that a lot of automakers will replicate in the future models.

A common misconception.... To infer that the ultimate ability in driving is to do it the "old fashioned way" is a narrow perspective of what represents skill. If cars were developed without a clutch from the very begining would racing be missing something? Should we have a cockpit like an aircraft where the lift on each lobe on your cam can be adjusted in real time by the driver to optimize the performance of the vehicle or perhaps being able to change the length or diameter of the exhaust or intake on your engine on the fly?

If you really want to be a purist shouldn't you be adding coal to your steam engine and adjusting the preasure? I don't think we'll see you on the race track with your Model T Ford and its 3 inch wide wooden spoke wheels even though that's real old school racing...

Lets face it - you rely on this technology that is common place (fuel injection, power everything, computer tuned systems, etc, etc, etc) but when something new comes around its cheating or beating the system. Well the whole automobile itself is a piece of technology and what you drive today minus the SMR is more of a far cry from the first automobile than just the SMR technology itself. After a period of time all transmissions will have some form of SMR and we'll forget that we ever had to blip the throttle....

:iagree:

Go back to the early days of automobiles...

You have to adjust the advance/retard of the ignition MANUALLY, you have to adjust the mixture MANUALLY, and the throttle...and there's no such thing as power steering, power brakes, shock absorbers, or even a roof. No synchronizers in the manual-only transmission, so you have to double-clutch just to shift.

Exactly - and who here is racing a vehicle like that? The point is SRM is just another step in the advancement of the automobile - not a cheat. Technology doesn't create laziness - humans do. You can be lazy without technology or extremely busy with it - ever had a problem with your computer and spend hours trying to get it work? :stirthepot:

I feel cool when I know how do it at least most of it manually. Is that good enough? :icon17:

I mean, you kinda have to admit that the more fast movements you do, you seem to appear as if you know what you're doing. I've had people tell me they'd get manual and spend hours and days practicing just to look good and esoteric.

Yes, I do think that SRM is a pinnacle of technology, the very first of it's kind, and I agree with blackbird, all the pride of people who have driven manual transmission since the 50s-60s have all that specific skill for doing everything for the car. (No, blackbird, I'm not calling you old, my father has driven manual since the 60s.) I'm sure as hell glad there are synchros and other components that keep manual from becoming a workout though.

I never said it's the old fashioned way (although I suppose it is somewhat). But I think just for now, where SRM is somewhat a rarity in general, that learning heel toe or whatever technique you desire for downshifting would be good, since I can only name DSGs, SMGs, and SRM that have rev matching. All other cars don't have it, and I doubt we'll see it on many cars for quite a while. It's even more likely that just like the 370Z, there will likely be an option to take it off, and will remain deactivate-able for years to come.

For those base model people considering and aftermarket LSD like Nismo or Quaife, take this into consideration before buying.
I previously had a base 350z (open differential) and swapped for the Nismo LSD

The 1.5 Nismo LSD definitely improved performance as far as off the line grip, corner entry and exit, maybe acceleration a bit, and for drifters it is a MUST HAVE.

For the everyday street drivers, I would not recommend this type of differential. The chattering and clunking noise is very very bad. Its loud and harsh. When making slow sharp turns, say in a parking lot for instance, the inside wheel would actually spudder and hop leaving rubber behind. I put only 7000 miles on a set of Goodyear F1 GSD3's. I believe mostly contributable to the differential.

I ended up swapping the open differential back into my base due to the very aggressive and nonpractical street nature of the Nismo LSD.

Conclusion:
Nismo, Quaife type LSD I would recommend only to those who track there car often, in which case you will love it

For a streetcar only, it is WAY too aggressive. stick with the viscuous lsd.

For the record: this is all IMHO

good advice premo... one option is to have the diff adjusted with less engagement force - prob would have resolved your issues... also, clutch-type diffs like the carbonetic give you the same benefits but with a more progressive engagement and less of the problems you mention

I think what bothers people about the SRM is the fact that they know how to heel and toe and now some guy who just learned how to drive a manual the day before yesterday can achieve better results than they could ever hope to achieve the "old way". Technology is typically better than humans doing something. It's just like ABS. I know how to pump my brakes, but it is physically impossible for me to do it as quickly as the ABS system does, especially in a stressful situation when such a skill would be required.

I can give you one reason for getting an automatic which is more than an excuse.
I suffer from paraplegia and am in a wheelchair so I use hand conrols to drive.
After test driving several sports cars under 40k. I found the 370z the most exciting
And entertaining paddleshift auto of the bunch.
Me as the novice racer am looking for an auto that shifts quickly and can rev up
To the the red for aggressive shifts. The gen coupe and 370z we're the only ones
To fit that bill. But with more available torque, much better handling and
Stronger acceleration the 370z fit the bill. It fit so much that I bought a new $3,000
Wheelchair that will fold tight enough to fit in that cubby hole of a trunk and still have just enough room for a sub box. Yes I can make miracles happen. Lol.
Nothing touches the z for the price.

I just came back from the dealer and I drove two base model, one manual with sport package, and one auto with out anything. and then I sat in a touring one with sport package. And I can personally say, I did not like the touring one at all. The leather was all hot and sticky, the suede wasn't all that I thought it would be. I don't really feel much of a diff because I would never track it and I didnt get to drive this one on the track so I dunno even if I need an LSD.

And can that Clutch pedal be any higher?! man I'm a pretty I guess average height dude at 6'0 and that clutch bothered me the most. Even more then the fact that I can barely see thru the back window. The Rev match made me feel like a pro. but that clutch really just URGH.. I didn't like the Manual one at all.

So then I tried the Base auto, with out anything it was so basic it only had wheel locks. And I loved it the seats were really nice Cloth it wasn't hot, it was well bolstered. I didn't slide around any where. and the Paddle shifter and manual mimicking Auto Tanny was just awesome. Without that annoying high Clutch I felt like I was driving like a Pro, Down shift and I hear a rev because the auto has rev matching too, it's just awesome. In fact it was so awesome I was going to buy it right off the lot. But it was in red which isn't good for my situation of no garage at all. Therefore, I'm waiting on their new shipment at the end of the week for a Brilliant Silver or a Pearl white in the same configuration. If they Don't have that I'll order one. Man NO REGRETS ON THE BASE MODEL AT ALL!

The quaife should be almost seamless with none of the low speed issues mentioned.

Along with the quaife, the carbonetics and cusco LSDs will be quite good for daily driven cars while also performing at the track.

Congrats on the purchase but dude FYI you can get an adjustable clutch cable and reset the engagement points for like $20 plus labor! :)

Haven't Bought it yet still deciding, Im not sure if I want a Red one because I got no garage or shade for it to park in, that and well I rather have silver or white. I live in a pretty congested traffic area. when I test drove them I purposely did it on rush hour too to see the effects and well yeah...I love manual, but maybe I need to just get an Auto! it help me with my knee problem nee ways. Darn I can't decide, if I just want to buy that Red one now or wait...sigh!

I WANT YOU TO BUY THE MANUAL ! LOL

One of the great things about SRM is that it takes some of the work out of shifting... I'd say get the auto if this were a dual-clutch auto like on porsche/audi/etc, but this auto is not nearly as efficient... buy the manual, get the clutch cable, have fun ! :)

Maybe I should go try the one they got that is the same config but manual, thing is it's yellow. As rare as that thing is and stuff I don't think I can do yellow it's just too bright hahaha.....argh... now Manual or Auto, Which Color...I really just want a nice Z I'll always be happy with, btw this is my first Nissan!

no shortage of opinions on colors around here, check around... my preferences were silver, white, blue, black, and everything else

Learning to heel toe lately (no SRM) and a successful execution is pure bliss. Not saying the SRM is not helpful but DIY sure is rewarding. To each his own. If you NEED the sport get it, but I plan to replace everything it includes so I didn't go with it.