Gauge is a sensor issue. Not at all related.


Nobody is contending that the fuel starve is going to be a problem for everyone....if that's what you are reading, try removing the chip from your shoulder and reading again.


It is an issue for anyone that wants to get on the gas out of a long, fast right turn. Most of the time when you see it on the street people are really dogging it, or you have something funky like a reverse banked turn. Even then, street starve is usually at a much lower fuel level than I would ever let my car get to.

I'm just taking a guess here, but I think once the pump goes dry, it shuts down the fuel system thinking the tank is empty. I know when I got towed off of Road Atlanta, I indicated empty and the car wouldn't start. After putting two gallons in, it went back to 3/4 full, so maybe there is no way for the fuel to get back to the other side once everything shuts down.

Guys, I can tell you that I've experienced this but under HARD driving conditions. Turn 17 at Sebring will have you taking a HARD right (almost 90+ mph), and anything under less than half will cause the issue. It's happen to me twice (on seperate occasions) already. It just so happens that a local show here in Tampa has a solution. As for street driving goes it has never happened to me (Luckily I don't do 90 mph on off ramps), but I do intend on tracking my car at least 4-5 times a year. So a solution will be put into place before my next track day.

The car runs lighter on 1/2 to 1/4 tank full on the track!

Rightfully so. I'd be pissed too.

I don't understand the design of the fuel tank. I get it that it goes over the transmission, so there are two sides to the tank.

So how does fuel get from one side of the "saddle" to the other, anyway? I understand that cornering forces would drive fuel to one side or the other, potentially away from the fuel pickups. Does the fuel have some way of leveling back out, other than a hard turn the other way? Are there two fuel pickups; one on each side? Otherwise you could be driving around with fuel in one half and the other half empty, leading to wacko gauge readings and fuel starvation.

Not exactly. It's not a problem with the pump, it's a problem with the bracket holding the pump (reserve cup being too small) and a bad gas tank that allows gas to slosh to the California side.

It's my first time hitting it off the track too, but this is my first time not being able to restart my car unlike a hick up like I had at the track. It's definitely not water, no sign combustion at the exhaust and you can just hear there is no gas.

100% agree.

I don't think it shut down the fuel system because there were a few times where the car "attempted" to fire. My best restart had me idling at 400RPM for about five secs. Problem went away as soon as I loaded it with gas. If I recall correctly, the fuel pump is fed by a combination of a vacuum tube sucking gas back in from the other side (no start=no vacuum). Correct me if i am wrong on this.

I hit the fuel starve at the track at 3/4 of a tank at 60mph. When I hit it last Friday, I never got past 70mph....

See my response for Mike, it's a vacuum that sucks gas back to the right side, where the fuel pump is. The fuel sending unit is on the left side, hence the weird readings you get after hard turns sometimes. I also believe there is a fuel sending unit on the right side (correct me if i am wrong), but i am not 100% sure on that. The gas tank has basically 3 holes, one for the fuel hose nozzle, one for the fuel pump assembley and one for the fuel sending unit. If you want to do any physical work inside, you have to go through one of the three hole. This is why it is so difficult to get a fixed for us and so easy to do it at Nissan since they can simply retool the inners of the gas tank to prevent fuel from sloshing or redesigning the fuel pump bracket/reserve cup to make it bigger.

There is a guy that is supposed to be working on it, but it's been a while and I am not even sure if I want to spend $1000 on whatever fix either. If he doesn't come up with a fix, the shop that designed my trailer hitch will probably start getting into the car to see if there is any fix for it. I have to be honest, it's not going to be an easy or cheap fix, we probably have to wait for Nissan to send a revision to the tank or the pump or maybe a recall.....

I don't really agree with hostility being aimed at this car either for the few (often very inconvenient) problems it may have, but comparing fuel starve to oil consumption is "apples to oranges."

FWIW I was hard on the car this past weekend doing some Auto-X, and my instructor was even harder and I had less than 1/2 tank and never had this issue. I have yet to see fuel starvation and I've take the on-ramp to North I-75 from Daniels Pkwy really hard, like really hard and never had an issue, but I don't look at my gas gauge so perhaps I had plenty of fuel.

Remember dude, it has to be hard and long. :icon14:

That's what she said :icon17:

It happened to me once, but now I can keep driving till one bar.

Oh it was!

This is all very interesting. There is no doubt that fuel starvation is an issue for the car. Like the oil overheating (not the same thing but similar in the design issues) it is something that a manufacturer who expects the car to be tracked should handle before making the car.

There are "sporty" looking cars like the Eclipse that are not really meant to track. But since 1969 Z's have been on tracks. It's unbelievable that Nissan engineering was unaware of this problem. Nissan tracks prototypes extensively to shake out any design flaws. So how do we end up with cars that overheat oil, experience brake fade due to heat, and suffer fuel starvation under track conditions?

I think the answer is that in their minds the Nissan engineers assumed that anyone who has track ambitions for a Z will buy the Nismo. I don't know if the Nismo has the fuel starvation issue (I bet it does), but it has always come with an oil cooler and better ventilation for the brakes.

I agree that the problems above did not prevent me from buying and loving my car. It did cost me some money to get an oil cooler, better brake lines and fluid, and better brake pads. In my mind, at least, I can imagine the Nissan engineering team being beaten up by marketing who wanted to hit that under $40k price point. It's a neat trick to build a mid range sports car that can compete with cars costing twice as much. It just seems odd to me that now almost four years after the 370 was introduced, only the oil temp issue has been addressed.

Nismo has the same problem. It's just a design issue with the tank or pump, whichever way you like to put it. A lot of cars on the road has the same problem, EXCEPT

A: Not many are this severe. I can hit fuel starve at 3/4 full tank on RE11, think about guys running slicks.
B: I have never heard of people not be able to restart the car after, leaving you stranded like I was in my case.

Remember the Z has a 18 gallons tank, to starve at 3/4 means that you basically run out of fuel at 14 gallons or so, which is scary to think about...

You guys need to stop thinking like this was designed like a race car, it was built as a mass produced vehicles and they look for cost savings and space savings at the end of the day. The racing history has nothing to do with it and frankly none of the race cars share the same features as the street car short of the dash layout and the body shape. Lotus Elise has the same problem too, same with Corvette, but none are this severe.

Well, I think the point is that while we know the tank design is faulty in hard right corners, there's a question of degree. Some of that's driving conditions and style, sure. But there might be some real variances that make the problem more dramatic for some people than others.

We already know the fuel gauges on this car are totally unreliable, and since dots on the fuel gauge is what most people are reporting the fuel starve problem by, we have a data accuracy problem on knowing how severe this is. We know we've also had a couple reports of some baffle plate in the fuel tank coming loose and flopping around inside. There could be variances or failures in the pump / fuel cup assembly too. It wouldn't shock me if, in addition to the basic tank design problem, there are other compounding factors that vary car to car.

Ive never had that issue and my light has been on a few times and ive done right sweeps all the time in this one road next to my house. Maybe it has been fixed.:happydance:

It isn't that I think of my car as a race car. I think of it as a car to take to the track for HPDE days. I am very sure that Nissan, like other sports car manufacturers are well aware of this use. Tracking and racing are not the same. It would be dumb for a manufacturer to market a race car to the public. That is a specialized market. However, over the last decade, motorsports (read that as "tracking") has been the fastest growing hobby in the US (according to Proformance Racing School).

If catastrophic fuel starvation occurs, is it possible to engage the clutch in order to save yourself?

I assume the car locks up in gear and you careen off the track.

You are absolutely right that the result varies, but that is more related to the drivers (btw if you still run with your VDC, chances are that you won't hit it) and not the car. Are you going to have variance between cars? Absolutely, but it's not going to be by much. This is assuming gas tanks and fuel pump assembly are the same for the 4 year run, which seems to be the case based on the part numbers. My gas tank is a new, replaced at 13K miles or something. I hit fuel starve with the first tank, and this tank also.

I have been tracking for 10+ years, there are very few cars (below 75K) that you can take straight to the track from the showroom and be able to do a full sessions at speed. Brake pads and fluids are usually the minimum you have to do. Oil cooler and fuel starve to this level are indeed very rare, but then it's not out of the norm given the performance you get from this vehicle. I am not happy about spending the $700 on the oil cooler, but I can understand why I have to spend it. I don't think doing 20 minutes track session is the test requirement on most cars being sold on the street, sports car or not.

Btw, the ceremic brakes on the 911 are advertised as track brakes, yet I can tell you they will MELT after one complete 20 minute track sessions. People who have them usually swap to regular brakes before each track day.

I don't know if anyone has blown a motor due to the fuel starve, but the engine doesn't seize up in my experiences. It is basically like hitting the fuel limiter except the car won't fire or struggles to fire.

Has anyone every tried the ECU reset pedal trick to fix this, as opposed to filling the car up or towing it to a station? If it is a purely mechanical issue, then no the ECU reset will not work. But if it is an electrical issue where the car is being told there's no gas - resetting the ECU could solve it.

If it was electrical, my car wouldn't start on the first crank after I got to the gas station....

Sorry you got to experience this. When it happened to me a couple of years ago on the street we were able to refire it after adding just 1 gallon of fuel, I'm guessing because the fill neck is on the passenger side.

On track with slicks I can get fuel starve after burning just 3.5 gallons, on 2.0 mile track that's about 9 laps. Can't even get through a 20 minute session on a completely full tank, sputters after 15 minutes or so.

I've had it with all.led off for about
10 extra mile >.<

me too. worst was carousel at Road America, would get it at 15/16 full coming exiting at 100mph or so.

had it once on the street. accelerating off a 270 degree cloverleaf, just like cossie, at just over half a tank.

If there isn't a fix by this winter and I still have the car, I am hoping to get in and see what I can find for solutions. We have 3-4 ideas in mind, but won't know what works best without going in there physically to spec every part out. I don't think it will happen, but it would be awesome if nissan comes up with a rev B and correct the cup or the tank.

I never tried to refill it with one or two gallon. It might work, but it was easier for me to wait for a complete tow truck than to take a risk to get two gallons only. It might work though and you are right the filler is on the right so in theory it could work.

The easy fix is rip out the dead weight of the tank and stick a fuel cell back there :)

2010 here. I have had the fuel starvation issue twice (once on the track once off). It surprised me on the one off the track but when it happened to me I lost power for about 10 seconds or so until the engine picked up again so I didn't let the car come to a complete stop and wasn't a huge inconvenience both times. I didn't think i was low enough for it to happen in both situations though.

Fuel pump part numbers
 

Per Nissan FAST...
Nissan added a bracket to the fuel pump assy from SEP 10 to present. Anybody w/a '11 or '12 get fuel starvation?
17045-1EA0A: bracket-pump, in tank

USDM/CANDM pump assy part numbers:
17040-1EA0A: '09-'10 fuel pump assy
17040-1EA0B: '11-'?? fuel pump assy

If pump *fails* Nissan supersedes to part number below (this part number is the JDM/EDM fuel pump part number):
17040-1EK0B: '11-'?? fuel pump assy

BTW-that schematic in post #70 of the fuel tank is basic, its not a true representation of the '09-'10 or '11+ fuel tank schematic that's in FAST.

Maybe you are onto something, worth digging into it. Let me do some searches, thanks man.

Anyway can get a picture of the bracket or the new pump?

The new fuel pump is $300 dollars. Anyone wanna chip in to compare the new and the old one....

It looks like 1EA0A is no longer available and only 1EK0B is available. The B means is a revision, perhaps Nissan modified it slightly?

Btw rep for you for big news!

2011 drove my car hard as hell today.. VDC off... half a tank. No fuel starve. Do you think fuel starve is remedied on 11 and 12 models?

None here as well '12

^^granted I just got my car

Driven on low gas plenty o times, and cornered hard, never had fuel starve issues.

Seems the '11-'12's may truly have had the issue fixed?

Took long right turn @ 50mph with 3 dots the other day getting on hwy , no fuel cut
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1zvalj8&s=6

I had the car for 6 months and had times run it down to zero before it happened to me, on the street you need the perfect combination of conditions. It is possible that a change was made for '11, but I'm guessing it was just a better bracket as some of us have broken the fuel pump off its bracket.

I have a 2011,, I still get fuel starvation in hard rights with 3/4 a tank. Now I am not sure what pump assy I have. I bought my Z in December of 2010.

I have a 11 and get FS at about two dots beow half. But my 11 was built in 10/2010 though.