wuuut. Nissan has to step up next gen..

CVT :stirthepot:

I figured they would. Shyt not for nothing, I'm not a fan of driving highly massed produced sports cars, but if the do a 302 style car with that style dct. I might just get a stang instead of a next gen Z or used GT-R. That's just nuckin futz.

One of the advantages of the Nissan 7AT is it is full and aggressive lockup in every gear but first, so the torque converter actually doesn't cause losses versus the manual.

My torque in gears charts seem to show the 7AT has more effective torque due to gearing from 1-4, only in 5th does the 6MT have more effective torque. I'd expect the 6MT to make up groused over 125MPH and comparing the Car and Driver 6MT test and 7AT tests see to bear that out. The 6MT goes from .9 seconds behind at 120 to .2 seconds behind at 140 MPH.

Nissan really designed both transmissions very carefully.

That's why I don't really understand it when they bash the AT. I've never felt anything this good with a torque converter.

Actually, you are right. The newest transmission is a seriously updated CVT.

Because no matter how good a automatic is some purists will always prefer a manual. I am the same way except I don't bash people for getting an automatic. If it makes them happy then I'm all for it.

:iagree:

And honestly as a manual driving purist. I don't see how the Z could even be on the list on. "Gotta have it" manual cars. Lol. I personally don't find anything wrong with Z manuals. But as a die hard manual purist?" Why the Z? I can name 10 cars ahead in the manual experience right off the bat.

Most bimmers, mazdas and hondas come witth some of the slickest shifters on the planet and they are affordable. Then I must admit. The muscle car manuals definately have an edge is the smoothness feel with better clutches. And for the price of a 370z you can drive a 2009 porsche cayman manual and have the god of manual sports car transmissions.
To top it off, the highly-praised SYNCRO-REV MATCH is so UNPURIST. I'm just being honest. If some people are so die-hard about there manuals? The Z would rank in the teens on the top 30 manual transmissions.

In the world of automatics. You need a DCT to even compare to a Z transmission. That speaks volumes about the Z AUTO. It is bettter than ANY slushbox on the market, hands down. Its a tech marvel while the manual leaves to be desired in the world of manuals.

I've never raced in an AT, so go easy on me...

In a straight line, stock AT vs stock AT, would there be any significant difference?

Unless Michael Schumacher is in the house, the auto will likely be favored over a manual. Even the best driver in a manual can make a mistake. But its hard for a driver in an auto to make a mistake when mashing the gas. Am I wrong?

I suppose I would take the Stock AT in a straight line :tup:

I test drove a used automatic and I also thought it felt quicker and had more low end torque than the manual. I think that modern automatic transmissions outperform manuals. Having said that, I ordered a 6mt because I think it is more fun to drive a manual sports car than an automatic. Do what makes you happy!

I think its less about the joy of a particular transmissions feel and more about total control. Some people just want a clutch and shift lever so they have total control, regardless of how the transmission itself feels.

Like I said, I couldn't care less about how technologically advanced or quick shifting any automatic is. Given the option I will always choose a manual. And there are many enthusiasts out there that feel the same way. The problem is you get some manual drivers that feel like its their duty to berate those that drive automatics.

AT should win 9 times out of 10 from a dig, on street tires.

My friend said to me "if an auto is faster, easier, and requires less work, why would you do it manually? Do you also do math by hand still without a calculator?"

I know what you're saying. And I like manuals as well. its just the last 6 years I've come to really admire the tech behind these autos. I have become a supporter of the auto just because how far they have come. In the 80's and 90's it was all about manuals for me. I would have never thought an auto could feel like they do today.
I don't question why people choose manuals. I'm just saying, when pople bash out of a Z forum. It becomes kind of contradictory when you factor in SRM and an average shifter/clutch. Its the anti-purist combo.
That said. I don't question ANYONES CHOICE of transmission.

Agreed. As long as people love what they drive its all good. :)

No offense, but bad comparison. Math isn't fun, going through the gears on a fast car or bike will always put a smile on my face!

^^Years ago, in calc, we were graded on the process, not the final result. As long as you set up the problem correctly and did all the necessary steps, you'd get 9/10 points for the problem. :)

For me, the main advantage of a manual is the driver's engagement in the whole driving experience. Sure an auto is easier, but it also requires less thought, more time to play with buttons/toys, and possibly more distraction.

Also, few SO's know how to drive manuals, so it keeps them out of the driver's seat.

If I didn't have the S2k the 7AT might wear on me. For DD the auto is perfect but for a weekend or pleasure car only my vote goes to the 6MT. I don't care what anyone else buys, get what you want and wave at me on the road. Just have fun!

And while I agree the manual keeps the SO out of the driver's seat, that's not always going to keep a sports car welcome in the garage. That's what bikes are for. lol

S2K :tiphat:

All AMG 's come with automatics..

Nothing wrong with a really good automatic...New technology is great.

Go back twenty years and you would NEVER buy an auto for road racing,,It would hesitate and then all of a sudden downshift and the compression would break the rear tires loose , and you could never time when the thing would down shift..

Modern automatics are way different now..I raced a friend twice in his 5.0 and my 350Z...I drove it manually once and then once i just left it in auto and drove it hard...

The car responded like a champ..Now in the 370Z, the auto is very cool, and I have always been an manual tranny purist.

I also drove the AMG and man that thing was way cool..Automatic but you could care less..Throw it in sport mode and let the fun begin..

The Z/28 is a close ratio 4 speed..If it was an automatic, i would have wrecked it years ago..

How do you drive a manual in auto mode?

Sorry.

I meant I drove the auto in manual mode..I was actually faster when I left it in automatic. I was able to keep both hands on the wheel in the 350Z..

But I just got the 370Z with the paddle shifters and I have not gone out and driven it hard yet..

I am sure that the 370z and the paddle shifters are going to be fun.. I will be able to keep both hands on the wheel..

I do believe that a manual tranny is better for road racing, but the the new auto tranny is getting really good..

Im starting to wish i had gotten the automatic, almost all of my driving is stop and go driving in traffic and this manual is not only brutal, but kind of slow off the line.

We will all have our doubts here & there about our purchases (AT or MT). Yes having a manual & in constant rush hr traffic (morning or evening) can be brutal, but when there isn't any traffic that makes up the difference hopefully.

i think MT is easier to drive than AT in bumper to bumper unless you have to keep going up a steep hill for miles.

:iagree: So very true....... I am not a huge fan of steep inclines & I really doubt anybody would be.

I can't let a 7AT thread go by without commenting :)

The 7AT is pretty awesome, but personally I don't buy the "learning" thing.

The ECU does do some realtime self-tuning of the engine, and this does tend to "learn" a bit by homing in on previously-seen values, such that it will adapt to breathing mods, fuel grade changes, ambient/air temp changes, oil/coolant temp changes, etc.

But when it comes to user driving style, I don't think the ECU or especially the 7AT's TCM is doing any real learning. It's a myth. It's the driver who's doing the learning, adapting your brain and reactions to how the car likes to operate.

+1 exactly what I was thinking

I haven't observed this in the 370z, but I do know for a fact that in the G37's 7AT, the shift points change after hard driving (foot deep in the pedal, hard braking). The car would downshift much earlier and upshift later. The change is even more noticeable in the sport mode of the transmission, which our 370Z automatics don't have. There, it will always downshift to keep revs above 3 or 4k. It's been a while, so I can't remember the actual cutoff. If I wasn't already driving it hard, then the auto wouldn't do that.

I haven't seen anything as drastic on the 370Z, since I keep it in manual mode in all but the most boring of drives. But if there was any learning, I doubt it'd be anything other than changing the shift points.

The shift points likely do change a bit based on driving conditions, but IMHO that would be a reaction to things like trans fluid temperature changes. That specific example is actually documented in the Service Manual: different shift strategies in different temp ranges. I still don't think it's making any conscious effort to adapt to "driving style".

Given the same current inputs (which there are a *ton* of: current RPM, current speed, gas/brake pedal positions, very short term gas/brake pedal history, ABS/ABLS/VDC state, fluid temps, available engine torque (which is a function of many inputs there: MAF/O2 readings, ambient air temp, coolant temp, dynamic timing from knock sensors, etc), etc...)...

... I think every car with the same code versions will react identically. They don't learn your "driving style" over the long term. Your driving style just changes those inputs directly or indirectly.

It's called Adaptive Shift Control - here's a link to Nissan's patent filing with the US PTO (and you'll notice from the dates on the document that it's not exactly "new technology"): Nissan's Adaptive Shift Control Patent

^ But again, that's just adaptability to current environmental/driving parameters, not a long-term "learning the style of the user". The patent is describing in detail loosely the same stuff that I wrote a couple posts above.

This is what I described as "LEARNING". And if you read carefully? I did say IT DOES NOT REALLY LEARN, but adjusts according to drive style. But with time, it will self-tune itself a lot faster than new.

I will agree "Self-Tuning is a much better term than learning. But learrning was the only word I can think of at the moment. I do also believe SOME IS OUR ADJUSTMENT but the ecu seems to work faster as you add miles to the car and reverts quicker after a few thousand miles.. so there is adjustment on the ecu side.
:tup:

Im surprised to hear such great things about the 370 AT, I maybe should have considered it before I purchased my Z. I have been completely against Auto's in sports cars but reading here I think maybe I will consider it next time around. Before I bought the Z I did test drive a Mercedes 350c with sports pkg but still felt like an old mans automatic car.

I love the Z so far but I do have to say, compared to my much older car that is heaview with a lot less horsepower, th Z feels like I am driving a Sherman tank off the line, feels like something not right for a car with over 300 HP.

i have the 7AT and mine feels like a missile off the line (once it hooks up lol). from a dead stop and smashing the gas will result in some spin in first and some spin in second given the road temp and tires. my tires now are gettin bald but i got brand new Michelin pilot SS ready to go for summer. my only performance mod now is my CBE exhaust and Test Pipes and i drop peoples jaws when the ride in the passenger seat. it's funny watching them panic and try to find a "OH SH!T" handle but there isn't any lol

Hahahahaaaaaa... you just descibed my wife. When I got the Z she said. "Damn, No **** Bar" lol. Now she holds on to the seat with one hand the door handle with the other... lol

The self-tuning just remembers previous best-fit data, that's all. If you factory-reset the ECU, for example, it has to go back to baseline and then figure out the best spark timing numbers to use given your fuel quality, air density, ambient/coolant temps, etc based on sensor feedback. Once it homes in on the correct values though, you can shut the car off and start it back up the next day and it will be much closer to optimal right off the bat (well, assuming you didn't ship it to another continent with different weather while it was shut off :) ). Reset the ECU and you're back to square one again.

But people get confused about this. They know the ECU is somewhat adaptable, and they see some effects where hard-vs-soft driving styles lead to a semi-persistent effect when you switch drivers for a few minutes, etc. They start thinking the ECU can really "learn" your driving style, as if it has some internal parameter that goes from 0-100 and measures "how aggressive this dude likes to run the car". It doesn't, AFAIK. It's just adapting to current conditions, and it will re-adapt within minutes if you change the conditions drastically.

haha yes that is a familiar move when i step on the gas with people in the car. only person so far not scared is my little sister but she's fckin crazy to begin with lol i've taught her well about driving just she'll never touch the driver seat in my Z.