Well, it seems the biggest problem is the bureaucrats themselves. I have faith that the NRC, etc will get things done quicker this time around though, re: approving new nuke plants. There are already proposals underway for a new generation of plants. Once the first few make it through the process, hopefully more will start. Nuke power is smart, and it's mostly ignorant fear on the part of the public that holds back nuclear plans :(

Brace yourself. Environmentalists (and people who live near wind farms) are putting an end to the concept of major wind farms. That's why, for a time recently, you heard the proposal to site wind farms offshore, out in the ocean.

Problem #1 -- Aesthetics. You're taking wilderness and/or beautiful countryside, stripping it naked of all natural tree life (clear-cutting to the extreme), and filling it with ugly metal towers. The construction itself creates a major greenhouse gas deficit.

Problem #2 -- Ultra-low frequency harmonics. Windmills go whump-whump-whump-whump constantly. When you've got a few hundred of them going whump-whump-whump-whump constantly, day after day, month after month, year after year, you drive away wildlife and make people within five miles of the installation go psycho. It's a big noise issue. Health as well as environmental interests are at work.

But how about waste-to-energy? You don't hear much about it because the waste management companies don't want you to hear much about it. But, if you use the WastAway system to process the garbage first, it's clean. It saves landfill space. It doesn't stink (as garbage incineration does). And it only takes three to five years to go through the permitting process and construction.

I was getting 10 to 12 hours of 5kw off of 5 gallons of gas on my very very old gas generator. After about a week of this, I bought a new 6KW Diesel Generator (diesel was much easier to find than reg gas after the hurricane), gassed it up, hooked it up and ran.........for about 30 min and the power came back up. I was almost mad. :D

wind, nuclear and hydro are going to be the answers, all are clean and high enough output that the small disadvantages to them are going to have to be over looked if the power shortages and green house gas problems are ever going to be addressed.

edit: wow didn`t realise how off topic this thread has got lol, i didn`t even remember what thread it was after reading through it and posting haha had to go to the top and look

Waste-to-engery is at the top of the list as "doable". There is some interesting algae alternate fuel stuff that looks very promising as well.
Pond-Powered Biofuels: Turning Algae into America's Newest Alternative Energy Source - Popular Mechanics
and
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science...oil/index.html

Back on topic, then . . . IF they decide to call it a Z, I think the new CAFE gives us an Altima Coupe with altered styling, the Z nameplate, front wheel drive, and a turbo four. (Would NISSAN ever put the Z label on a 4-cyl front-drive car? I don't really think so.) It might be the return of the 240SX.

I haven't forgotten history. We've had CAFE standards increase over the past 35 years. You choose to focus on the initial shock in the 70's, then extrapolate out that horror to today and well beyond. You ignore the fact that today WE DO HAVE the cars I cited despite the highest CAFE standards ever. You've just flat out lost your perspective.

My original point remains. Yes, things will advance and change as they always have. The Z will ever evolve, and Nissan will pump up mileage on the commodity models to reach the required average. Big deal. Can we stop the hyperbole now? :confused:

Agreed. Nissan sells 1 million cars a year (well they used to) in which to make their average. They can afford to have a few cars under the average if they are low volume. The high volume economy cars will bring the average up.

Except... CAFE standards haven't risen for passenger cars since 1990, when they reached their present level of 27.5.

Having that raised to 39 mpg in 7 years... that's pretty significant when it hasn't risen in nearly 20 years.

I'd say being worried that a 40% increase in the CAFE standards in the next 7 years might adversely affect the Z is not hyperbole at all.

Exactly, and if you think about America's love affair with the automobile, and the popularity of Detroit in the 50's and 60's, you can see why they are in trouble now......... they moved away from cars that stir the soul!

John

Your first point is good, but it doesn't change mine either. Lol, how important is the Z to reaching that 39 mpg avg considering it's production #'s and % volume for Nissan? The commodity models will drive the mpg average as they always have.

Your second point is not so good. Marquee models with their accompanying lower mpg are a reality for most manufactures because they don't sell that many of them. If Nissan sold 50k+ Z's, you'd be right. But they don't. Hyperbole and hysteria in this thread? Yes.

We will agree to disagree then.

I think the abrupt increases in the MPG standards *will* affect the Z's design. Sure, it's not a huge seller or a huge percentage of Nissan's US sales, but having a car that is currently 16 or 17 MPG under the standard that will be law in 7 short years will call for some fairly significant engineering.

And besides, with a 39 mpg standard, Nissan is gonna have to sell a good number of cars that EXCEED that level in order to make up for the Z and all its other low MPG cars. How many Nissan models get more than 39 mpg? I can't think of any.

The Z may be especially vulnerable simply because Nissan is a smaller car company that may not have the capital to so radically re-engineer their product line. The easiest way for them to meet the standards will be to eliminate low-mileage cars like the Z from their lineup entirely.

It may be pessimistic, but this is truly the way I see it going down.

I don't know maybe Nissan can do something like Chevy and a couple other car manufactures and have an engine that cuts cyclenders on the highway.

There are actually only two things we know for sure --

1. Unless they tax us into oblivion (which has been seriously proposed), our current Zs are great and will remain great. How many of us would still drive them with a punitive tax on fuel (up to $4 additional dollars of tax per gallon has been proposed by congressional Democrats)?

2. We will certainly be able to read about the 2016 generation of Zs in the press. Europe and Asia won't be following our lead. And, as in the dark days, they will still get all the cool cars and motorcycles -- whether we do, or not. (And, again, they'll be laughing at us for our grand gesture.)

Actually if Nissan decides to continue the Z and just not offer it here because of our crazy laws then you may just see the baddest Z ever built. It's just too bad that you will have to live in China to drive it. Of course there is always the possibility that China may call our debt that we owe them and we all might be living in China right now without even knowing it.

One thing I wanted to add to this old discussion is a loophole in that 35.5 CAFE standard. And that would be the use of E85. As of now the automakers could simply convert the engines to run on E85 and that gives them a huge CAFE rating boost. So much so that every automakers would reach the new goal. Plus it is pretty easy to convert the engines to E85. Essentially install bigger fuel injectors and use more durable materials that come in contact with the E85 fuel as it is corrosive. This is a loophole that corn states can love.

I do not think Nissan and the Z will go away (unless sales fall off). Nissan does not have many hybrids yet and could easily throw that into the mix on a few cars and boost the CAFE rating up. Plus I could see them dropping a car or two and creating a tighter line up.

There will always be youth! There for, there will always be horse power and speed!

CAFE was first passed in 1975 and didnt actually kick in until 1978.
Corporate Average Fuel Economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can't blame it (directly) for the death of any of the classic muscle/sport cars you mentioned. It just piled some extra dirt on top of their corpses.

What killed the musclecars was a combination of higher gas prices, high insurance, the changeover to unleaded gas, and the increasing amount of emission controls. But none of those are CAFE.

Update: It appears that there's CAFE and then . . . there's NEW CAFE!! (This could be good news or bad news, depending on how politically astute Nissan is at the time and/or how much you really wanted fuel economy to improve.)

Under the NEW CAFE, trucks and cars will receive individual testing regimen (NOT standardized) which make allowances for the intended use of the vehicle. Trucks and luxury cars will be given certain "allowances." The testing regimen will be NEGOTIATED by the manufacturer and will be different than the window sticker MPG listings. And the NEW CAFE regimen will be run without air conditioning, without temperature variances, using extremely gradual acceleration. In short, it will have NOTHING to do with real-world MPG or even window-sticker MPG.

The word I heard from one of the administrators was, "It is entirely possible that today's 370Z could be rated at 35 mpg for NEW CAFE purposes. We fully expect that a large car or pickup rated at 26 real-world highway mpg will be negotiated into a 35 mpg NEW CAFE rating."

In other words, NEW CAFE isn't as much about engineering as it is about lobbying. If you really care about fuel economy, it's an illusion. Just a political game.