Well, I agree that diplomacy is an important tool, especially now that we've got some engineering types looking at our cars in the field.

However: (a) I really wish they hadn't decided to do their test in the northern climates. It's the guys along the southern edge of the country that are going to see this problem the worst, and that's really where they should be looking. Also (b) 'just a few weeks' more? We're already on the verge of proper summer in the southern states. A few more weeks to release, a few more weeks after that for people to actually get them into their cars... they're running late, and people are going to hurt their cars in the hot weather in the meantime. We should have been at this stage back in February.

In know, February would've been the best time, but at least the fix will be here in a bit. You'll also have the cooler available for you in a few weeks. We're the actual testers because the engineers are wondering why they're getting so hot this far north. I think when it comes out for us getting logged by engineers, you will also have this product for your car. (IMO, you do have to be just a bit throttle-happy to get this to happen.) For those of you wondering if this is going to be a problem on long highway trips in the heat, don't cancel your plans. It sounds like some people are really getting freaked out by this. Buy this car, and you can get the Nissan Motorsports oil cooler. It's just about here. The company is positive of this, and are confident it will work perfectly.

Spoke with Bill again and he alluded that they know much more about this than he did when I talked to him yesterday. He said that they have plenty of test cars in Phoenix and wanted to focus on cars in the Midwest (not sure what this means...perhaps determine the extent of the issue in cooler climates??? Your guess is as good as mine.). He did mention they had two other people in the Midwest that they've contacted and are working with to reproduce and evaluate the problem. Weatherman, you must be one of them. They also know all about this site and these threads, though they are focusing on objective information first hand rather than posts here.

Things are happening, eveyone. Be patient, hang in there, and know that it looks like Nissan is taking positive steps. Thus far, everyone I've spoken to from Nissan has been both professional and understanding. They want this fixed just like we do.

One cannot help wonder where Nissan ran their 370Z mules? They collect reams of data on mules, and for this not to show up as it is has to make you question how they collected their data too?

I still empathetically state that the person coming to take spearfish25's data be a Japanese National from corporate Nissan Japan if we want better results.

Yup, I'm a test mule! Just don't call mine a "jacka$$" ha ha! Nissan has been great with me. Spearfish couldn't be any more correct. Just be patient. They're on it. Spear, did you say you're in Chicago? We're having engineers fly in to look at our cars. You're right about two things. First, they know that if our northern cars are having problems already, the south will definitely. Secondly, I think they picked the two of us because we are so close together. They can go to Chicago and just drive up to Milwaukee. That was if I remember you saying you were in Chicago. I could be wrong on that one.

I am more interested in how the process will transpire after this data collection (not even remotely as extensive as real mules). There is a system in place, both culturally and corporate, and this process that can be expedited if someone from corporate Japan is here. This is a fact, not fiction as the true hierarchy of decision-making will not reside in the US.

Do any of you involved know if this will be a slipstream manufacturing upgrade for new cars sold, or will this be on an "as requested by owner but charged for" accessory install?

My rep said the Japanese would be involved. I didn't even ask either. I may have to pay for this and if I do, I do! I'd have to go and buy one anyway. It's just something good for the current and future owners of the car. If they have the option of buying an optional oil cooler, it will be nice. I would've loved that option. We'll all have that option coming up shortly here. All of us know that if we open up our car for just a few minutes, our oil temps go flying up. Patience O' Z fans. I still love my car, even without a cooler.

I just called Nissan Consumer Affairs, and got a case number myself.
Wish I didn't have this issue.
I2D

I agree that this is looking promising - well done Spearfish and all the others who have shouted from the rooftops of this forum (Musashi, etc, etc).

However, don't get so excited that you lose sight of the fact that currently the car isn't 'fit for purpose'. Nissan will need to do 2 things...

1. make the oil cooler standard on all new cars.

2. offer to fit an oil cooler free of charge to all cars that have been sold without one. You should NOT have to pay a cent and you should NOT have to fight for it.

Hopefully Nissan have already decided to do these things.

Here's the problem about what you say about this, which I do understand your side. If you own a Jeep, go off roading, jump it off some small hills, or hit some rocks hard and knock it's alignment and suspension off, does that mean Jeep has to provide you with free alignments and tougher suspension hardware? It's kind of a devil's advocate question. Where do you draw the line if you're them? I know what we'd like, but what's realistic?

This is why I'm not really clamoring for a free upgrade from Nissan. Most people in most climates, driving like most people do, aren't going to limp mode their car. They probably won't even break 260, or if they do it will be very brief and the car will recover temps on its own. I'm fine with having to shell out some $$ for an oil cooler addon, I just think this should have been a warrantied factory option, and that Nissan should acknowledge the issue and reassure us they aren't going to go out of their way (in the legal sense) to blame anything on people installing aftermarket oil coolers in light of the lack of their own at launch.

The issue is that we have everyday drivers running into heat issues—driving as normal and not as an enthusiast (not that the Z is an enthusiast automobile or anything like that).

Loved that part! I do understand, but am not expecting a miracle.

My motivations are probably different that others here as my concern is with my wife driving it with her elderly parents. I do believe that Nissan screwed-the-pooch on this one. However, all matters can be remedied. Regarding coming out-of-pocket or not I am more interested in a resolution—and soon—that will not impede existing factory warranties or extended factory warranties. I have no interest in having our 370Z's engine overheat because at that point I will get rid of it. I would put an oil cooler on today, but I am not quite happy with the current solutions—including Nissan's and would much rather go along the lines of the Fluidyne Ultralite, but again, I do not want to hassle with Nissan or some Service Department idiot trying to explain to me how I voided a warranty because of Nissan's issue in the first place (small claims court is much better at handling this situation). Time-is-of-the-essence...summer is fast upon us.

Remember that the issue is that the upper rev limits are being reduced at a certain temperature point, there is no evidence of damage to the engines or engines shutting down. For all we know the 350Z does the same thing but just doesn't have the protection circuit built in. If your wife is going over 6500 RPMs with her parents in the car, she's probably shortening their lives as it is! :eek:


:D

FWIW, I have the means and motivation to buy, but will not until this issue sees some kind of resolution.

Nissan clearly had some idea as to the issue from its test mules - that's why all of the media cars were equipped with oil coolers, even for the differentials. BTW, just saw last night that 0-60 magazine had a 370z that went into limp mode after no more than 1-1/2 laps(!) of a North Carolina track.

Perhaps Nissan has not heard about this from its dealers - just because a member of this group complains to their dealer about the issue does not mean that the dealer forwards the complaint to Nissan.

Let's face it, Nissan is not all that worried about those of you that track your cars or use them in timed events. Such use is clearly beyond typical passenger car usage, even for an enthusiast vehicle. However, what concerns me is the number of cars in the sample reaching 260+ while sitting in traffic - believe me, that is not a situation that should result in high oil temps (those cars shouldn't even be hitting 230). It's not much different than leaving the car idling in your driveway.

Under normal usage, there is little reason that oil temps should not stabilize somewhere near the coolant temperature of these motors until they are pressed hard. It seems likely that oil temperatures are rising under typically low heat load conditions as a result of the VVEL set up.

Finally, I'm not an engineer but have nearly 30 years of automotive repair experience and I've also had more than 25 years and 250,000 miles to observe oil temps in my 1982 280ZX turbo under just about any conceivable conditions...my $30k+ stays in my pocket until there is at least a factory certified optional cooler available at reasonable cost...

Not to be overly negative: Prior to retiring I worked as an engineer investigating claims. I was always interested in the problem and made sure the customer new I felt that way. However, the bottom line was if the product met the standard for it's intended use the claim was denied. Frequently I could see their point of view but the material was good for the intended use. That is where the great sea of grey area emerges.

And that is why the people with the day to day issues will be key to solving this issue. If one mentions track in their conversations with Nissan their listening level will be turned down if not off.

I would be happy to be a test subject for Nissan officials, here in Austin, where it hit 96 degrees yesterday. I watched oil temp carefully during my drive home (normal driving as always). Avg temp around 225, but with average driving, 20 mins or so elapsed, temp rose to apx. 230-235. I've seen 250, without overly aggressive driving.

I don't believe I've gone into 'limp' mode -- but my comfort level begins to erode when normal driving and seeing temps north of 235-240. Perhaps I'm misguided.

I2D

That roughly jives with about what I see. In hotter weather maybe it will be a different story, but if I had a Nissan guy in my passenger seat the few times I hit 260 so far, I don't think he would agree that I was driving anywhere close to reasonable or normal.

In the weather we've had in Houston so far, I don't think any normal driving in normal commuter traffic is going to reach 260. Perhaps 240, but that temperature is within reason. I still want an oil cooler though, and I still think it's disingenuous of Nissan to market this as a performance car and a trackable car, and do press events at tracks with "optional" oil coolers that aren't actually available. I'd have no complaints if there was a $500-ish factory option for the cooler available at the dealer at purchase time and recommended for those that drive the car harder and/or in warmer weather. However, we're months past that point in time for most of us posting here.

Who goes in the trunk, Grandma or Grandpa?

I just returned from a weekend trip from Los Angeles to Lake Tahoe, going up the back side of Cali via the 395. Without any kind of "enthusiastic" driving, my oil temp hit 260 twice on the way up and once on the way back down. My cruise control was on most of the time and it was set to 75.

I am still not certain, however, how improper that temperature is for a car (not having monitored oil temp regularly in the past on my 350z). I wasn't flooring it nor was I excessively speeding to generate that temp, but it only happened 3 times and it dropped back down within 2-3 minutes. On the two times up to Tahoe, it occurred while going up a hill and on the way back it was on a very gradual gradient.

But what exactly does that mean for the car? I'm assuming, based on the previous posts, that these three brief bursts into 260 will not damage the car and it did not seem to affect performance. What exactly is "normal" and when do temperature spikes become a "problem" for a car? How frequently do would they have to happen and how long "should" they take to dissipate? I understand about what triggers the "limp wrist" mode, but I haven't gotten anywhere close to that. Temperatures were pushing 94 degrees on the drive and it took 8 hours. So I'm more concerned about the 240-270 range and what means to a car over its lifetime.

I intend to track this car from time to time, so I will be forced to add an oil cooler regardless. The overwhelming feedback has been that a full 20-25 minute run on the track - much less an entire day - is pretty much impossible without one. But I am also interested in what is, or should be, considered "normal" conditions off the track. Emotional opinions about Nissan knowingly releasing a sports car that overheats on the the track aside, does anyone have any engineering perspective on this?

260 is the point where I worry. It shouldn't cause immediate harm of any kind, but over the long term if you're hitting 260+ on any kind of regular basis, it's got to affect both oil life and engine life. 280 is a level I consider totally unacceptable. If I ever saw my needle about to hit 280, I'd stop doing whatever I was doing (in your case, apparently going up a mountain in 95 degree weather), and pull over and pop the hood (but leave the engine running!) to get it cooled back down if necessary. I don't plan on ever allowing my car to reach limp-mode if I can help it.

My opinion is that under normal highway driving the oil temp should remain between 180-230 degrees, this gives you the headroom for the spirited driving the car is advertised as supplying. The fact that you hit 260 with cruise on scares me as this just shouldn't happen unless you're climbing a mountain.

As far as engine damage, there is non likely for brief spike to 260. Sustained temps of 260 and above are a serious concern for the bearings and could drastically shorten their life.

I'm pretty sure he was basically climbing a mountain, on that route. I haven't driven it myself, but it sounds like it. Lake Tahoe is nearly a mile higher in the sky than Los Angeles, and it was an 8 hour drive with lots of ups and down I assume.

Ironically, the times that I hit 260 were not steep climbs but rather more gradual inclines. It seemed that trying to sustain 75 or so over a longer, but flatter, increase in elevation is what bothered the car more. I was surprised, however, at how quickly the temp changed from the 220-230 range up to 260 during that time. I would say that within approximately 2-3 minutes the oil temp had jumped 35 degrees or so. But, to be fair, it did seem to drop back down pretty quickly once I was on level ground again.

Interesting. There is a highway that is perfect for this test: Interstate 8 between San Diego and Yuma. Going to Yuma it has the long uphills, and returning its has windy elevated upgrades. It has the heat coming from Imperial Valley. Has anyone tried this route? Thanks.

One stands by the side of the road, while other rides.

I lived in CA for many years, and pulled a pretty big BOAT up the steep grade going North from Mono Lake -- and never once saw an oil temp like that in a large 4x4 SUV.
Different vehicle, different purpose -- but that type of temp in a LIGHT car with a powerful motor....just doesn't seem right.

Anyone suspecting that the a thermostat change might help here? The rapid cooling suggests something other than just air balancing going on here. Perhaps a lower temp thermostat might help alleviate the delta in oil temp. :confused:

I doubt it, honestly. The thermo on our cars is fully opened up before we even begin to see oil temp problems, and stays that way throughout the oil heatup / cooldown process.

I agree, and anyone dealing with Nissan about this should be discussing their temps on the "road" under normal to spirited driving conditions. It is a sports car, and they would be crazy to assume people won't enjoy it for what it's intended for within the legal limits. Start talking "track" temps and you probably won't get a lot of support. Besides, there are enough of us here that have driven in 90 degree weather now that can support high temps from limited spirited driving. Two minutes of fun, not exceeding 5500 RPM, followed by bumper to bumper rush hour traffic and I hit 260...... not good. In July and August with any hard driving at all I bet it climbs higher.

John

:subscribed:

Digital Thermastat on car said it was 79degree's outside.
driving 59 mph grandma style puts my oil temp at 210. All straight, 2 minor hills.

This high or no?

Well look on the bright side, things could be worse
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See, they're actually really good sports over on the Porsche board. They're not saying "Free" or "Lemon." They're just asking, "How do we fix it?" That should be our atittude. They're actually laughing at the Germans! That problem is way more serious than having to put an oil cooler on our cars. I agree with you Jim. Nissan will get it right.

I will contact my Regional Manager and try and help you guys out. Not every dealer is an idiot:(

Thanks for the help! :tup: And I agree, there are some very good dealers out there.

Talked to my DOM and Bill Hayes is the go to guy so you are on the right track!

:icon18:

Every car should have one!

I would still be more at ease if a Nissan corporate member, from Japan, were involved and providing feedback. (I just know how their system works a bit better than most.) Thanks for the update.