Nissan 370Z Forum
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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Nissan 370Z General Discussions (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/)
-   -   2009 Nissan 370Z Automatic - Short Take Road Test (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/3873-2009-nissan-370z-automatic-short-take-road-test.html)

cg370z 04-29-2009 08:37 AM
hmmmmm... perhaps it is the 7AT but in MANUAL MODE!!! oh no, now what, it's some sort of freak of a transmission, what do we classify this as??? 7AT MM???

we could have 3 sets of 0-60 times, one for 6MT, one for 7AT, and one for 7AT MM...

Maybe putting the 7AT in manual mode is like when Sylvester Stallone turns his hat backwards in "Over the Top".

I'm just kidding of course. This thread is halarious, and the best part is other car forums are talking about this too. I "googled" it, and found a Subaru forum having the same debate regarding the 370z... this is great.

t-ray 04-29-2009 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellarmed (Post 64507)
I agree that 2 mph is a big diff. Being passed by another car at the finish line that is going 2 mph faster doesn't leave any doubt as to who's in charge at that moment.

My only point is (and I have thousands of quarter mile passes in everything from 13 seconds to 7 seconds), weather and track conditions could account for such a difference. If legit 106 mph runs have been made at a density altitude of 2000' (which is probably about average and would certainly not be considered undesirable) and the 108 mph run was made at a sea level/60* temp with a 10mph tailwind... there's your difference.

I don't recall that the people doing this 13.1/108 performance stated exactly what the conditions were or where they actually performed their test so I agree that's a consideration to question.
They also just rounded off those numbers so was it a 107.51 rounded up? I will say that those numbers do match up correctly assuming about a 1.9 60'.

I don't want to sound like I think that these cars are going to be laying down 108 mph runs on a regular basis. I guess my point is... just because somebody may have done it, doesn't mean that there's some kind of fairy dusting monkey business going on.

I will agree however that the validity of all these different test results are open to question concerning just how they were measuring the numbers. I actually don't believe any of these 0-60 numbers as being truely accurate. 60' times on a drag strip...yes. 0-60 mph measured in tenths of a sec.... no.

If these quarter mile times were done on a NHRA cert drag strip using the same equipment that would be used at a sanctioned race, then there isn't any room for argument. On the other hand.... if the guy was just looking at the speedo....:gtfo2:
All good points. However, this article was in C&D, and the test procedures for C&D are published and well known.

Most of the time metrics are not collected at a sanctioned track - they are collected whereever the opportunity presents. And the timings are tracked with a unit called a VBOX. I can't remember the technical details, but C&D had quite an interesting article detailing the testing equipment several years back. From what I recall, the unit was very accurate - accurate for figures like ET and g's. However, this is a guess here, I would imagine the trap speed figures would be "optimistic" - much like a gtech.

But that's just a guess.

t-ray 04-29-2009 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zman1910 (Post 64521)
I don't know what's so hard to believe....

Infiniti G37 sedan 6MT - 0-60 5.2 sec 1/4 mile - 13.9 @ 103mph
Infiniti G37 sedan 7AT - 0-60 5.0 sec 1/4 mile - 13.5 @105.xxmph

Nissan 370Z 6MT - 0-60 4.9 sec 1/4 mile - 13.3 @ 106mph
Nissan 370Z 7AT - 0-60 4.6 sec 1/4 mile - 13.1 @ 108mph

According to mags it seems to fall in line with the same engine in a heavier vehicle. Get over it already.
Can you find any record of an owner-driven G37 Sedan going 105mph in the 1/4 with the 7at gearbox?

t-ray 04-29-2009 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg370z (Post 64931)
hmmmmm... perhaps it is the 7AT but in MANUAL MODE!!! oh no, now what, it's some sort of freak of a transmission, what do we classify this as??? 7AT MM???

we could have 3 sets of 0-60 times, one for 6MT, one for 7AT, and one for 7AT MM...

Maybe putting the 7AT in manual mode is like when Sylvester Stallone turns his hat backwards in "Over the Top".

I'm just kidding of course. This thread is halarious, and the best part is other car forums are talking about this too. I "googled" it, and found a Subaru forum having the same debate regarding the 370z... this is great.
I think this is quite an interesting discussion - academically of course. I don't dispute the fact that stock for stock, the 7at might show slightly quicker ET's than the manual counterpart. The 7at has more aggressive final gearing in the first four gears, the only gears that will be used all-motor. The 7at won't put down as much power to the ground as the 6mt, but the difference would be offset by the shorter gearing. And the 7at will just flat out launch better, with more consistency.

However, the 7at will not out-trap the 6mt. Not gonna happen. Not stock.

wellarmed 04-29-2009 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-ray (Post 64934)
All good points. However, this article was in C&D, and the test procedures for C&D are published and well known.

Most of the time metrics are not collected at a sanctioned track - they are collected whereever the opportunity presents. And the timings are tracked with a unit called a VBOX. I can't remember the technical details, but C&D had quite an interesting article detailing the testing equipment several years back. From what I recall, the unit was very accurate - accurate for figures like ET and g's. However, this is a guess here, I would imagine the trap speed figures would be "optimistic" - much like a gtech.

But that's just a guess.
Yea... if that's what they're doing, they might as well be using a stopwatch as far as I'm concerned. I mean how hard is it to use a legit track for that kind of testing. I know the mags used to use Pomona in SoCal all the time.
Anyway..... I would be interested in reading that article because years ago I put a gtech in a Mustang that was running high 11s at the time on slicks. A guy that was marketing them gave me one to try out. I figured the sudden launch of dumping the cluch with slicks was just too much for the thing to deal with because the results were not even close to accurate.
I wouldn't doubt that that type of equipment is better now but I would have to see identical numbers repeated on a track with real timers to confirm before I'll believe what amounts to a g-meter/calculator can 'figure' down to 1/10s of sec/mph with repeatable accuracy.
Maybe someone with real life experience of doing that can chime in.

Anyway...... real 106s are being produced and what I'm really interested in seeing are some real track numbers from one with the new long intake and exhaust combinations. If the Stillen intake with pullys and HFC makes as much power on the track as claimed on the dyno I think we'll be seeing some 108s (or more:rolleyes:) that won't be debatable.

scorpion90 04-29-2009 10:59 AM
Gt-r
 
Looked inside the GR-R at my dealer and there is no manual shift knob. Paddle shifters behind the steering wheel and what looks like a fancy automatic type console shifter. There is NO Clutch pedal!

So, is it an auto or a manual? Sure looks like an auto to me, although with dual automatic lock up clutches. My 2 cents worth.

Lug 04-29-2009 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion90 (Post 64985)
Looked inside the GR-R at my dealer and there is no manual shift knob. Paddle shifters behind the steering wheel and what looks like a fancy automatic type console shifter. There is NO Clutch pedal!

So, is it an auto or a manual? Sure looks like an auto to me, although with dual automatic lock up clutches. My 2 cents worth.
The GTR has a true Dual Clutch transmission, totally different animal and far superior to either a manual or traditional automatic in switching speed.

280z/300zx 04-29-2009 12:43 PM
IF you find it so impossible to think that a 370z can put down these times that beat the C5 Vette what do you think of the HR 350z's that run 13.1-13.2. It's been well documented that the HR 350z can run these times so it shouldn't be to hard to understand that the more powerful 370z with a better suspension and rear diff ratio would be faster. Perhaps the C5 has too much torque causing it not to make use of it's power off the line

zman1910 04-29-2009 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-ray (Post 64935)
Can you find any record of an owner-driven G37 Sedan going 105mph in the 1/4 with the 7at gearbox?
No and truthfully I don't really care to. I got what I needed to out of the mags and that is simply that the 7AT is quicker. All those times are from the same mag using the same testing procedures and fit right in line given the weight of the vehicles. Whether the trap is 105 mph or 103 mph the point is that the 7AT is quicker than the manual.

The most important point to take from this is that it is even harder to screw up straight line acceleration in an AUTO.

t-ray 04-29-2009 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 280z/300zx (Post 65048)
IF you find it so impossible to think that a 370z can put down these times that beat the C5 Vette what do you think of the HR 350z's that run 13.1-13.2. It's been well documented that the HR 350z can run these times so it shouldn't be to hard to understand that the more powerful 370z with a better suspension and rear diff ratio would be faster. Perhaps the C5 has too much torque causing it not to make use of it's power off the line
I highly doubt changes to the suspension from the 350 to the 370 would significantly impact launching the car hard.

And there are very few HR's that run that low - especially stock. You can't take VeeTec's as being representative of the whole.

The vette's real-world times, taken as an aggregate, would be well below the times of the 370, as an aggregate.

t-ray 04-29-2009 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zman1910 (Post 65063)
No and truthfully I don't really care to. I got what I needed to out of the mags and that is simply that the 7AT is quicker. All those times are from the same mag using the same testing procedures and fit right in line given the weight of the vehicles. Whether the trap is 105 mph or 103 mph the point is that the 7AT is quicker than the manual.
That's not necessarily true - the 7AT being quicker that is. According to C&D it was, but they were two different cars measured by different drivers in different conditions. C&D's corrections for conditions are aweful. Also, they plainly state in the testing procedures that for manuals they do not launch the car hard, nor do they shift particularly fast.

For example, in an article that compared the g35 sedan against the bmw 330(before the 335), amongst others, the best time they were able to wring out of the was something like 14.5 at roughly 100mph. And that was *corrected*. I've got the same car, and with highflow cats, it ran 13.7@102mph. Stock, it ran 14 flat at 101mph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zman1910 (Post 65063)
The most important point to take from this is that it is even harder to screw up straight line acceleration in an AUTO.
Automatics will be harder to screw up, and they will be more consistent. But until you mess with the torque converter, the manuals will be able to launch harder. That's a fact. In the real world, the manuals will be faster than the autos - that is, until you start running major boost.

zman1910 04-29-2009 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-ray (Post 65074)
That's not necessarily true - the 7AT being quicker that is. According to C&D it was, but they were two different cars measured by different drivers in different conditions. C&D's corrections for conditions are aweful. Also, they plainly state in the testing procedures that for manuals they do not launch the car hard, nor do they shift particularly fast.
You are bringing variables into the equation. If your gonna do that why even bother reading any magazine specs. You could argue variation for just about anything.

As I stated before the only thing you can take out of this is what they are showing you which is the auto is faster in a straight line. Whether you want to believe or not is up to you. I will believe it since this isn't the only car it has been proven in. And I highly doubt we will ever see a comparison set in ideal conditions.

I have rarely ever read of a car being tested on the same day/time with the same conditions and the same driver. It'll almost never happen so this is all we have to go by and usually mag times are reproducible and somewhat accurate. Hell even most above average drivers can best these times as has been proven on many occasions.

scorpion90 04-30-2009 11:05 AM
Hard to Shift Paradigms
 
Believe what you want to believe, but the marvel of electronics and engineering are making the manual tranny old school. Clearly, the Nissan GR-R uses basically a super auto tranny with great performance, so what so hard to believe that some of that technology is in the 370Z auto tranny. Believe what you want, but the times are a changing.

ChrisSlicks 04-30-2009 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion90 (Post 65533)
Believe what you want to believe, but the marvel of electronics and engineering are making the manual tranny old school. Clearly, the Nissan GR-R uses basically a super auto tranny with great performance, so what so hard to believe that some of that technology is in the 370Z auto tranny. Believe what you want, but the times are a changing.
Actually the GT-R is a super manual sequential tranny, that has 2 clutches and computer controlled.

You're right about the technology though, the auto tranny has come a long way from the 3-speed slush boxes of old.

Lug 04-30-2009 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion90 (Post 65533)
Believe what you want to believe, but the marvel of electronics and engineering are making the manual tranny old school. Clearly, the Nissan GR-R uses basically a super auto tranny with great performance, so what so hard to believe that some of that technology is in the 370Z auto tranny. Believe what you want, but the times are a changing.
Not trying to be a jerk, but you really need to read this.

HowStuffWorks "How Dual-clutch Transmissions Work"


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