I agree with all of this but let me say this (and I am gonna catch flak I know), all these peak power measurements are next to worthless on a car driven on the street. One needs to look at the total area under the curve of the useable RPM range. My guess, and no I have not done the math, is that the K&N drop ins (or in my case the AFEs) and HKS tubes
are even closer than that.

Some of you guys are crazy. A dude comes on here asking for the aftermarket to give some validity to their claims, and you say he's lazy?

The sort of **** the car aftermarket pulls on consumers wouldn't fly anywhere else.

I don't think he (or anyone else) is looking for real world track time comparisons. He's just looking for base statistics that are a crucial part of all of these components.

I mean, imagine for a second if Intel or AMD didn't give consumers info on their chip and just sold it as is? Or if an electric guitar maker didn't tell you what sort of pickups you were getting? Or if you bought food and they refused to tell you the ingredients? You get the picture.

It's pretty ridiculous that wheel manufacturers are shady with weight -- especially when they are in the forged market that basically markets to performance buyers. Same for every other type of performance part. I'm not asking for comparison tests -- I just want to know basic figures.

They tell us what we are getting, though. Dyno gains will vary from car to car, and so there isn't really an answer. You wouldn't expect a pickup maker to advertise the exact signal gain that will be experienced in your situation, and AMD/Intel can only tell you how the chip performs on its own.

There isn't enough demand for companies to bother extensive testing. Stillen sells plenty of intakes without much documentation, and they would sell only a marginal amount more if they showed the results of extensive testing.
Most people are more concerned with price than performance. Would you be willing to pay an extra $100-150 for intakes just to have documentation on them?

I agree 100%



:tiphat:

They won't vary that much.

Again, read my comment on how many air filter manufacturers do comparions with competitors.

It won't raise the cost $100 per unit -- frankly, they're way overpriced as it is.

Not really. Are you familiar with the profit margins most of the companies have? They are high relative to most mass-produced products, but pretty low considering how custom they are, and how much R&D goes into each platform.

i gained 10rwhp with AFE drop ins and Post mafs...dyno are here somewhere

Oh? Then why did Stillen go through 3 versions of their intake and sell all three versions. If they had done all of this behind the scenes as R&D only the final one would have been sold.

(Although, credit where credit is due -- Stillen does appear to do much more R&D than other companies.)

This whole argument is reminiscent of the exhaust system discussion...

Again, I suggested that comapnies should consider making compariosns with other competiing products using the products other people already had (no cost for them, maybe a discoun on a part they sell) or a set of inexpensive panel filters -- that's not much more than is already done, but the information would be very useful for consumers.

Remember, we only get the dynos we get because consumers wanted t osee some evidence of gains before buying.

What's fair and sufficient is arbitrary.

That sounds about right -- I bet more at some points under the curve too.

Like I said, about a 5% gain for CAI and about 3-4% for panel filters plus tubes. Very, very close.

Because there is a limit to how much research they can do, and it's fundamentally limited by their funding. The product was good enough to sell at all three points along the way, so it's not like it was some halfhearted effort.

Even if manufacturers were to post comparisons with competitor's product, there is no way in hell they would post a comparison that shows some other company's product is better than their own or even relatively close to their product for a much lower cost. That would just be stupid and kill their business. Why would any company advertise on it's website "here's our product, but it's not as good as this other company's product" or "here's our product, but you can get almost the same results for half the cost". That would kill most if not all of their sales. With that being said, if manufacturers only show comparisons with products that aren't as good while ignoring those that are better, what is the point of the comparison? It does not really give you any useful information. Just my :twocents:

I do agree about the wheel weight issue though. I wouldn't buy any wheels from anyone who won't tell me something so simple and important in my decision making process.