Nissan Tuner Cars Skyline/Silva vs the Z
 

Could someone shed some light on this for me? from what i've been reading, it seems like Skyline's and Silvia's are much more common as tuner cars than Z(any model year)'s. Is the RB**DETT an easier engine to mod? It just seems like in the world of japanese tuner cars, that skyline's and silvias are modded more frequently, and with more outrageous results than Z's. Maybe i'm completely, wrong, i mean, there are some crazy Z builds out there, but is the VQ not really as good of a platform for a build? It just seems like for every one crazy Z build, there are like 5 Silvia's and Skyline builds.

In japan, those cars are more popular i believe. Last time i went down there, they were like a dime a dozen.

RB26DETs are iron blocks that can handle loads of power. The silvia and skyline have also been around much longer. The SR20DET is also a very tunable engine with endless possibility.

Chriz is right, also the older models are a bit more "free" of technology making it easier to do things. With the 370z you have VVEL, computers doing everything, etc. but with those cars (and engines) it is only one computer and the engine.
Also, it seems like the RB engines just fit nicely into the silva's so it ended up being a deadly combination.

new cars are more about extracting power from computer tuning than physical tuning, because like previously said, just about everything in computer controlled in some form or fashion. those older cars were computer controlled, but only to a certain extent because technology has took off like a rocket in the automotive world. look at it this way, those older car computers compared to the 350z/370z is like dos compared to modern mac/windows.

agree to that. RB blocks are built like tanks. low amounts of mods can lead to HUGE power increases, then u got ur attesa system which keeps you out of the woods.

the sr20det has indeed been around for a while and is a very popular engine in many cars. its very tunable, very well built and has lots of aftermarket support. this is why its chosen. more importantly silvias are actually very good and very balanced cars. so people just choose them.

not saying the Z isnt good but for the cost of an old silvia is just very cheap any ole guy can pick one up and slowly add mods to it and grow to love it. and its lighter and more nimble than say a 300zx.

agree with the above, those cars were just easier to mod and get more power out of. in japan, in general, the youth market was the S and R-chassis cars because they had 4 seats. young adults with small children who liked to work on their own cars and do some light tuning were their main audience. they were daily driver cars for most. the Z was more of a weekend car and therefore more appeals to an older demographic in general which doesn't lend itself to the same market share. this is all based on what i've heard about JP

Compression, compression, compression

All factory turbo motors like the RB and SR series run low compression at around 8:1 which is ideal for forced induction. The VQ like in our 370'z is a non turbo motor, so it makes power by running really high compression at 11:1 and clever variable valve lift and duration. This is not ideal for forced induction, as the high compression doesn't leave much room for increased boost and becomes difficult to tune and avoid pre-detonation. Heat is the enemy of compression. A full teardown and rebuild is the only real option to drop the compression which is costly...

It's also a LOT easier to fit large turbos to a straight motor rather than a V motor from an engine bay space perspctive.

No one really does this as the RB26 is a stronger motor out of the factory...and the fact GTR's run intelligent 4WD makes them one the best value for money street drag cars ever. My old R32 GTR ran in the 11's on street tyres and stock turbos with just minor upgrades.

The 2JZGTE from the Supra is also a ball tearer of a motor for big boost.

my 2c worth

Thanks for the info... I was just driving along the other day, thinking about potential mods. Instead of doing bolt ons etc now, i figured i'd keep my car stock for a few years and just enjoy it for what it is. Then once i need another, more practical car for every day use, i figure i'd turn it into my project car, and do a turbo build. In a few years, we'll know what kits, and what methods are the best with our engines, but then i started thinking. Would it be better to have the VQ37 built up to be able to withstand a lot of boost, or would it just be better to do a swap for an rb26dett and then go from there, knowing already that the motor can take it.

If I were to do a RB engine build, and this is my opinion, I would not do it in the 370z.
The car already is a nightmare of computers and a simple engine swap is not so simple anymore. I would take a silvia and do it in that and throw on a nice aero kit and be golden.

haha i was just thinking that actually. I guess, i'd rather have my Z has a nice, fast, sports car and leave it for what it is, and use a silvia and make that my ridiculous build car. I'd do a skyline, but... lets get real here.

I would do a skyline also, but getting one in the states is almost impossible and then evening trying to get it registered, proper VIN, etc. is not going to happen.
I do know of a few, one of which is on eBay currently, but last I looked it was getting close to 30k for the car and it still had a couple of days left.

yea its just too risky, you could wind up paying an importer a load of money, then the car gets stuck at customs and crushed, and you are out the money. My friend has an R34, its legal somehow though, its registered and everything. he just finished his build a while ago, right now he's running about 500whp, but once he installs his new clutch he can turn the boost up and the car has made 800whp on the dyno before.

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so the consensus seems to be, that the Z is not the best candidate for a tuner car?

haha if u want a tuner go for a FF import. like a civic. lots of those running real serious parts and actually doing quite well at the track. i personally wouldnt drop an RB into our Zs. lots more power but LOTS of modification and the weight dist would be off. swapping motors as someone said about isnt that simple as oh choose some engine and throw it into another thing. so yeah. if u wanna tune up ur Z u gotta beef up the internals on the engine and then boost it. i know lots of ppl are running decent hp off 6-8 lbs of boost from the gtm tt kits. might be an option there.

Though all the above stated are all 90% true. There's one giant and much simpler answer than all of the above. The favored bodystyle of most modders are GT cars, not Sports cars. Historically GT has been the most popular mod car. Mostly for the reasons mentioned above, but look at the case of the skyline... it has the same engine and compression ratio as the fairlady. But its still much more popular to mod. That's due to the mod culture started with GT. So that's where enthusiasts gravitate.

I'm not necessarily trying to tune my car right now. I'm really just trying to understand why tuners gravitate towards the skyline/silva instead of the fairlady, but the post below makes sense.


That makes sense. I see the appeal of taking a GT car and modding/tuning it to the point where it is more powerful and better handling than a sports car. So do you think the japanese tuner fanboys look at Z's like boring grandpa cars that they could eat for breakfast?, or is it more like 'damn i'd like to have one of those and mod it up'?

*cough mkIV*

the thing is that the VQ can only handle 1000bhp max and RB can so far handle 1340 bhp at its max:iagree:

haha an un-usable 1000bhp vs 1340 bhp... hmmm which do i want!?

jk i understand what you mean, but ithink 1000 hp is more than anyone except bullit is trying to get out of our engine.

hahahaha thanks for the plug Jeff :tup:

Remember guys if your going to build a car it has to be application specific. Mine just happens to be versatile enough to DD and do standing mile runs :D

Well it looks like I will be adding a nice car to my collection soon, going over a few things currently and working out all the plans. Along with not destroying the 370z plans to much.

like what? a silvia or something?

A silvia

which model/year? are you gonna do a 240sx conversion or get something JDM?

Still waiting to hear all the details on it, should have news late this week or middle of next probably, the car will be imported.

sick! s15?

No, going with a S14. The S15 is a really nice car, and of course non-existent here in the States, but I prefer the S14.

the s14 is indeed really nice. in terms of aftermarket, the one with the nicer body kit is going to look better so doesn't matter that much where you start. i'd take either.

I believe turners stay away from the Z because it lacks force induction. If Nissan ever turbo'd the Z it would be in higher demand among tuners. This won't happen cause they don't wanna ruin the market share they have with the GTR. I hate that the Z has so many cpu's attached to it, but I guess this is the sign of the times

Go look at a lot of other cars, GT-R, most of the Porsche line, BMW, etc. You want to talk about computer controls. Now, with many of those car companies and their cars, there is usually a single button or option which gives you free control of everything.

maybe the solution to cracking VVEL is through hacking the ECU via the TPMS. Cars hacked through wireless tire sensors ... yes... all tuners, i have found the solution, feel free to send money via pay pal

The Skylines and Silvias have been around for a very long time. It's expected that the aftermarket for these cars would be huge. I've investigated building a silvia tuner car and they are readily available (except for the s15) in the states. However, to maintain it and have it properly built would be expensive and frankly I'd rather just save it for the Z. The Skyline and the inline 6 motor (arguably the best motor layout ever) is a different monster. However I would not currently purchase an r33 or r34 unless it is a kaizo or motordyne car that has been federally approved. You can find loop holes to get it state approved but that means jack sh!t when getting it federally approved, one day big brother catches on and your toast. I know a few members on the skyline owners forum who will sell the second they are under the impression that big brother is sniffing around, why take the risk?

The Z is still an aftermarket baby. We just got F.I. and Top Secret who builds some of the most insane machines out there, hasn't even released their z34 engine build yet. A lot of things haven't been done yet, namely a built shortblock N/A or F.I, or a built longblock N/A or F.I. $ is an issue and no one wants to be the first. I think after bullitt figures out his project and we see how he addressed engine management, heads, and such the Z as a whole will make leaps and bounds in the aftermarket.