Nissan 370Z Forum

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-   -   Hope Nissan is watching this... (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/20987-hope-nissan-watching.html)

tbonesteak 06-25-2010 03:01 AM

Warm, give it up. The guy has a fair view and u need to learn to give credit where it's deserved. Your fanboism is pretty pathetic man... Like someone said earlier, this is why the Z community doesn't have the greatest image among the tuner crowd.

Forrest 06-25-2010 07:35 AM

If i was in the market again. And i had to cross shop a Genesis 5.0 and a 370z same price. at 429HP i would be driving a genesis.

LinPark 06-25-2010 08:03 AM

I would say Warm's "fanboyism" is right where it should be here on The370Z.com - why don't you guys stroll back over to TheGC.com and show your "fanboyism" there? Looks to me like you're just here for starting arguments. I know this is a public forum but my understanding is that its intention is to provide a place where 370Z enthusiasts and owners can come together and share ideas. Not saying you aren't welcome, but what purpose are you serving here to further that end? :confused:

m4a1mustang 06-25-2010 08:16 AM

Ah... the "car guy" is truly a dying breed.

j.arnaldo 06-25-2010 09:00 AM

...imagine a "Z" with the 4.5L engine of the high-end "M" car...She would even eclipse the GT-R!!!

Cmike2780 06-25-2010 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.arnaldo (Post 592762)
...imagine a "Z" with the 4.5L engine of the high-end "M" car...She would even eclipse the GT-R!!!

Imagine a mid engine Z to truly compete with the Cayman S in terms of balance.

Endgame 06-25-2010 09:11 AM

It seems to me that the Gen Coupe is not targeting the 'true' sport car market, but rather going after the Stangs in an attempt to enter the muscle car war. It will be hard for it to do so, and for many to view it as a muscle car only becuase muscle cars are typically what? American....

But, that most definately seems to be the route the are going. The V8 will increase weight of the car (engine and chasis strenthing to handle the power) to somewhere close to the Stang; so it will become just that... a true muscle car by definition.

That's cool, I think the Stang is top notch and would love to see Ford rattled again by the Gen Coupe. Because it is an import, however, people will ALWAYS class is a Z competition, but in the end, it will really be more comparable to the Muscle cars with a V8. Meanwhile, the Z continues to be compared to the Z4's, Caymans, Boxsters, etc of the world.

And, the ONLY Gen Coupe I have seen and thought looked good, was a white one, lowered on gun metal CE28's I saw rolling around Phoenix a couple months back. It was hot.

LMBmikeZ 06-25-2010 09:12 AM

**** it take a Z and fit a titan 5.6L v8 and see how you can tune her up!

daisuke149 06-25-2010 09:48 AM

again the other cars that hyundai produces arent crap. The genesis sedan is an amazing car. The 2006+ sonata's are great everyday sedans. Compared to an over priced boring camry or accord? A fully loaded 2006 sonata was available for 21k out the door, a comparable camry was 27k. The santa Fe's every since they have been out have been a great alternative as an SUV. They were larger and more comfortable than their competitors (yes the styling is definitely a question to each person and the engines werent great, but when it came out try to remember what the competition was anyway)

And yes as said previously, the GC isnt directly targetting the z, but its still a decent comparison. If it makes nissan up the Z next time around how is any of this a bad thing?

And the reason the 370 has a good aftermarket is that it directly follows the 350. Once the GC 2nd gen is out the aftermarket avail will be comparable if not better due to the 2 engines (esp one being turbo)

Any the GC guy shouldnt have to take his "arguements" somewhere else. This is a forum. A forum is a place to discuss ideas and share thoughts. And people are right, there is abhorish fanboism sometimes (on both sides lets be fair, if we take a look at the GC forums)

P.S I also did crosh shop the GC and the 370. In the end i wanted a purer sports car, had no need for 4 seats (i also purchased a versa at the same time). So again the 370 is purpose built as a sports car. The GC is built as a sports coupe but better than the other sports coupes out there. (notice, sports car vs sports coupe, yes theres a difference)

Now if only Korea would send the Spirra out here at a 40k price point or something.

theDreamer 06-25-2010 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt@qc (Post 592612)
How is that?

It tooks 3 years for Fast Intentions to finally release long tube headers for the Z. CP-E's LTH will be released this month for the GC. We're looking at over 20whp gains compared to the stubby design on the OE headers, and they'll eliminate the primary cats as well.

ECU reflashes are awfully important on the Genesis 3.8 considering it was originally tuned to run on 87 octane, thus suffering from extremely rich conditions throughout the RPM range. The 3.8 with I/H/E and a tune will put down over 310whp with a underrevving engine (7200 RPM with a flash). The OE cams being the culprit in disallowing any higher revs. It took a few years to polished ECU tuning on the Z, initially you guys were barely gaining anything. I know because I've been in the market for sports car for quite a while, and as a car enthusiast I lurked these boards and kept myself updated.

We already have a few supercharger and turbo packages available from Korea. We already have cams available as well, engine internals, etc.

P.S.: The first production year of the Genesis is a MY2010.

I fail to see your point, we have amazing aftermarket support.

I need to correct you on a few things.
The first set of LTH produced by Fast Intentions was December of 2009 and the first Z in the US was sold January 2, 2009. (Link) Production was only slowed because Tony (owner of F.I.) wanted to buy a piece of equipment which would make a better product all around; downside was it had a 2-3 month wait to get it in. Upside everyone in the community agreed it was fine and we gladly waited.

Where did anyone say we got nothing from tunes?
Tuning is first not about gains, it is about bringing the engine in check between timing, AF, etc. so as to not cause knocking or other negative effects. Then we look at gains on what the car can do, and if you want to compare a stock Z v. a stock Z with a tune it is from 10-20HP (based on dyno). The reason people do not see much gains after they do aftermarket parts is because we have an ECU which learns and adapts to changes properly. Thus when I put intake, LTH, exhaust I gained my 40HP but only 5-8 from a tune, but the tune made sure I did not ruin my engine.

Point of this post is to correct false information. The gen coupe is a good start up car for Hyundai, but like any new car it has been slow aftermarket wise because tuning companies have a lot of R&D to do, price decisions to make, etc. I am sure the gen coupe will grow quickly, but it has been slow just because of the newer market (not a bad thing, but just how it is).

tbonesteak 06-25-2010 10:28 AM

what Daisuke said two posts up. Hyundai has come up at a rate that no other auto manufacturers have ever done so in the past, especially after a completely ruined image (which in the car world is pretty much game over for a company). Their cars are brilliant and backed by the best warranty. They are now the 5th biggest auto maker in the world and ain't goin anywhere for a long long time. While i admit my 370 is superior to the gc in every performance aspect, i admit that they are legit and offer very high quality products (perceived from both real life experiences and countless media reviews). A true car guy would not bash on something that they are biased purely on their opinion. "30-40x the racing heritage".....are you kidding me? that is the most retarded logic i have ever heard in my life.

Gunzero 06-25-2010 10:31 AM

Nobody cares what you guys drive. Just live your life according to you. Don't let other people dictate what you choose. These 2 cars are badass :D

Jeffblue 06-25-2010 10:56 AM

I dont think the genesis is a nice car and i dont think that they intended it to be some sort of budget Z Killer. Compare this to an altima coupe, or a honda accord coupe and it runs laps around them. I think its really supposed to run laps around the FWD wanna be sporty coupes that just aren't, and that it does. I'd take a GC over an altima coupe or accord coupe or eclipse any day.

Stupid mens magazines make these dumb comparisons just for the sake of it. its not car enthusiasts that do it.

I feel like a GC owner would be more likely to look at an accord coupe and think like 'hah i spent the same amount of money and got RWD handling and more power than your practical 2 door version of a sedan' rather than looking at a Z and going 'HAH I could totally destroy that Z on the track!'

toxik 06-25-2010 11:00 AM

^ some of the Gen coupe owners I talked to think their car is Lambo status and better than anything out there. Someone even told me my Z is ugly compared to their Genesis.

I still think that GC is a nice car, but I agree, if it has 4 seats it should not be compared to a Z in any way shape or form.

shadoquad 06-25-2010 11:03 AM

I test drove the Genny against the Z.

In the end, I think the Z looks and performs better. But I liked the Genny, and if Hyundai refine its build and performance further, its future is very bright indeed!

Jeffblue 06-25-2010 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik (Post 592915)
^ some of the Gen coupe owners I talked to think their car is Lambo status and better than anything out there. Someone even told me my Z is ugly compared to their Genesis.

I still think that GC is a nice car, but I agree, if it has 4 seats it should not be compared to a Z in any way shape or form.

Agreed. There are people with riced out civics that thing their cars are lambo status and are better than anything else. Ultimately, they know its not. If i pull up to a 911, The guy can look over at my car, think its a really nice car, but he knows its better, and i know his is better too. If i pull up to a genesis, and made eye contact i'd definitely say, nice car. and i think that MOST genesis owners, deep down, know that the Z is a better car.

shadow2k 06-25-2010 11:09 AM

Every other car I looked at before buying the Z had 4 seats. I'm not the only guy that didn't cross cars off his list because they had a back seat.

The GC was actually a car I looked at briefly. Unfortunately it is ugly both inside and out to me, so it got crossed off pretty quick. But remember, it is not expensive, it has power, and it has a superb warranty. Those three things will draw more people in than the Z's heritage. Your rep will only get you so far. It would not surprise me in the least to see a 429hp GC outsell the 370z in the states unless Nissan bumped the power output.

toxik 06-25-2010 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow2k (Post 592926)
Every other car I looked at before buying the Z had 4 seats. I'm not the only guy that didn't cross cars off his list because they had a back seat.

The GC was actually a car I looked at briefly. Unfortunately it is ugly both inside and out to me, so it got crossed off pretty quick. But remember, it is not expensive, it has power, and it has a superb warranty. Those three things will draw more people in than the Z's heritage. Your rep will only get you so far. It would not surprise me in the least to see a 429hp GC outsell the 370z in the states unless Nissan bumped the power output.

fine by me, i don't want nissan to make the Z an attractive car to the masses, I want it to be an enthusiast car, which only a lucky few choose to own.

my biggest gripe with the genesis, and why in the end I think a Z is a better car, even without the looks, power, etc.... I think the Genesis is trying too hard to be what is already out. The points they copied from various other car manufacturers are so blatant... its trying to be G37 too much. Hey Hyundai why don't you make something original, same as what Nissan and Infiniti have been doing, they are not trying to look like a BMW or whoever their competition is. The Z doesn't look like anything else on the road, I can't say that for the Gen.

And for those that got a Gen because it's cheap for a RWD sports car... cheap and sports car should not be in the same sentence imho.

shadoquad 06-25-2010 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik (Post 592940)
And for those that got a Gen because it's cheap for a RWD sports car... cheap and sports car should not be in the same sentence imho.

You're probably not a big fan of Miatas, then, are you?

I have no problem with affordable performance.

My only gripe with the genny was build quality and design. Also, it was hard to locate one with a manual tranny and the 6-banger in my area.

toxik 06-25-2010 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad (Post 592943)
You're probably not a big fan of Miatas, then, are you?

I have no problem with affordable performance.

My only gripe with the genny was build quality and design. Also, it was hard to locate one with a manual tranny and the 6-banger in my area.

miata handling ftw... great car to get for an 18 year old as a first car.

i just don't think sports cars are meant to be cheap.

Jeffblue 06-25-2010 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik (Post 592940)
fine by me, i don't want nissan to make the Z an attractive car to the masses, I want it to be an enthusiast car, which only a lucky few choose to own.

my biggest gripe with the genesis, and why in the end I think a Z is a better car, even without the looks, power, etc.... I think the Genesis is trying too hard to be what is already out. The points they copied from various other car manufacturers are so blatant... its trying to be G37 too much. Hey Hyundai why don't you make something original, same as what Nissan and Infiniti have been doing, they are not trying to look like a BMW or whoever their competition is. The Z doesn't look like anything else on the road, I can't say that for the Gen.

And for those that got a Gen because it's cheap for a RWD sports car... cheap and sports car should not be in the same sentence imho.

WORD. seriously, i dont have too much of a problem with the Genesis coupe in particular. But the one thing that really grinds my gears about hyundai is that the copy everyone elses designs. I quite honestly don't understand how they don't get sued by other companies for overtly taking design elements from their cars

tbonesteak 06-25-2010 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad (Post 592943)
You're probably not a big fan of Miatas, then, are you?

I have no problem with affordable performance.

My only gripe with the genny was build quality and design. Also, it was hard to locate one with a manual tranny and the 6-banger in my area.

Good man....miatas are one of the greatest enthusiast cars ever made and they are damn cheap. So was the s2000. At their final 2 yrs of production, you could walk out with a brand new one for 28k OTD, which is accord range.

tbonesteak 06-25-2010 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik (Post 592947)
miata handling ftw... great car to get for an 18 year old as a first car.

i just don't think sports cars are meant to be cheap.


WTF......u are fail. You haven't been around a while i'm assuming. Miatas for 18 yr old first car? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA wow....speechless.

shadoquad 06-25-2010 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik (Post 592947)
i just don't think sports cars are meant to be cheap.

That's fair enough. We can differ on this opinion. Apparently, we both agree on one car in particular ;)

In my opinion, affordable performance is sublime. I like to see young guys driving GC's, MS3's, Miatas, base Mustangs and Camaros. It gives me hope that car enthusiasts are driving fast and having fun. That said, I think there's also definitely a place for your Porsches, Vettes, and GTR's at the top of that range, and then all the ridiculous "I hit the lottery" supercars for us to daydream about above them. I love fast cars in general, from hot hatches to roadsters to out-and-out race cars. I think they all have their place.

Cmike2780 06-25-2010 11:59 AM

I think the competition would be good for both companies. Maybe we'll see a 450Z variant of the VK45DE from the Super GT 350Z or a 560Z variant of the VK56DE GTR-GT1. Chances are we won't anytime soon. The market for each, including the Genesis would be narrow at best. I don't see it as a viable option for Hyundai. It would eat up V6 sales if priced too low and would be entering upmarket competition if priced too high, I'm guessing 38k to 40k. The body style would also be similar to a car half the price. That's a huge undertaking that few companies have solved without having negative connotations. I like the design of the Genesis, but to me, it doesn't have the look of
$40k sports car.

Design wise:
$22k-Wow, Sweet Looking, Awesome
$32k-Nice, but could be better
$40k-Eh....

matt@qc 06-25-2010 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik (Post 592947)
i just don't think sports cars are meant to be cheap.

Funny you should say that, I've always seen the Z has a cheaper alternative to the other sports cars out there (Porsche Cayman, BMW Z4, M3, etc.)

The Z, to this day, is still the "cheapest" true sport car (2 seater, RWD, 300hp+) you can get for the money.

Perspective makes wonder.

wishihadnav 06-25-2010 01:23 PM

^^yeah i have to agree...Z's are cheap..haha.

toxik 06-25-2010 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbonesteak (Post 592958)
WTF......u are fail. You haven't been around a while i'm assuming. Miatas for 18 yr old first car? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA wow....speechless.

lol i haven't been around for a while? okay i will always admit where a car excels but I would never drive a miata, its so small and looks so meh. Anyone older than 30 driving that car is in some hard case of mid life crisis. Hey I can't have a personal opinion, or am I automatically wrong if you don't agree?

Edit: BTW just to see if I'm the only one with this opinion, I did a quick google and found a TON of results... here's one for example: http://vlane.com/review/8300/1997-ma...ung-enthusiast

shadoquad 06-25-2010 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik (Post 593190)
lol i haven't been around for a while? okay i will always admit where a car excels but I would never drive a miata, its so small and looks so meh. Anyone older than 30 driving that car is in some hard case of mid life crisis. Hey I can't have a personal opinion, or am I automatically wrong if you don't agree?

Freedom of thought... on the internet?! Are you CRAZY?!

:rofl2:

CBRich 06-25-2010 02:47 PM

I have no idea how old you WarmandSCSI but I can tell you now that you will do much better in this life with an open mind rather than the closed minded ignorance you have now. And I am done with this thread.

daisuke149 06-25-2010 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRich (Post 593306)
I have no idea how old you WarmandSCSI but I can tell you now that you will do much better in this life with an open mind rather than the closed minded ignorance you have now. And I am done with this thread.

maybe cus he also owns an Evo. those guys have a horrid reputation about being closed minded arrogant douche's.

tbonesteak 06-25-2010 03:03 PM

uh....toxik. i am not even gonna respond to your post because i honestly cannot grasp where to start. If you see miatas as a 18 yo's first car, then you are missing out brother. Miatas are one of the most respected tuner cars in the import scene. The revolution that it started, the potential it has, what people make it do, etc. Let's just say that without the Miata, the s2000 would not have been made and the z3 roadster probably won't have been made as well. I am willing to bet you that the percentage of Miata owners who make their "cheap" cars into track monsters engulf the percentage of Z owners who even take their cars to the track. The miata is a true enthusaist car and noone experienced in the field will deny that.

toxik 06-25-2010 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbonesteak (Post 593337)
uh....toxik. i am not even gonna respond to your post because i honestly cannot grasp where to start. If you see miatas as a 18 yo's first car, then you are missing out brother. Miatas are one of the most respected tuner cars in the import scene. The revolution that it started, the potential it has, what people make it do, etc. Let's just say that without the Miata, the s2000 would not have been made and the z3 roadster probably won't have been made as well. I am willing to bet you that the percentage of Miata owners who make their "cheap" cars into track monsters engulf the percentage of Z owners who even take their cars to the track. The miata is a true enthusaist car and noone experienced in the field will deny that.

I still don't understand your gripe with my statement, why is a miata hard to drive? Everything I know about a miata says that it handles like a dream and is a perky little car. Why is it a bad first car to get if you are into sports car at a young age? Again like I said before I even googled exactly that and found ton of sites that posted similar discussion as a miata being a great first car to get. Please enlighten me, I'm not trying to be hostile at all... I'm just as much of a car enthusiast as the next guy.

wishihadnav 06-25-2010 03:11 PM

yeah miata's are great track cars no doubt..rwd,cheap,light..etc..still wouldn't drive one on the street though..but thats just me..haha.

shadoquad 06-25-2010 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik (Post 593347)
I still don't understand your gripe with my statement, why is a miata hard to drive? Everything I know about a miata says that it handles like a dream and is a perky little car. Why is it a bad first car to get if you are into sports car at a young age? Again like I said before I even googled exactly that and found ton of sites that posted similar discussion as a miata being a great first car to get. Please enlighten me, I'm not trying to be hostile at all... I'm just as much of a car enthusiast as the next guy.

I could be wrong, but I think that he's referring to the fact that it's not only a great first car, but there are more uses for older miatas as inexpensive track toys for later in life.

Cmike2780 06-25-2010 03:49 PM

:iagree:
Don't race anything you can't afford to crash. The Miata is a perfect squid car to learn proper driving technique's. Don't forget, that car was still going strong when it seemed like rwd sports cars were going extinct (300ZX, RX-7, Supra).

wishihadnav 06-25-2010 03:57 PM

^^exactly.

tbonesteak 06-25-2010 05:05 PM

^^^YES finally.

tbonesteak 06-25-2010 05:08 PM

bottom line is that your "i don't think sports cars are meant to be cheap" philosophy is a no go.

kenchan 06-25-2010 07:44 PM

anyone going all out KDM yet?


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