Kyle said they have ducts for the new fascia... (top of this page)

That could be the clincher for me buying the new fascia.

Also, why couldn't someone make ducts that mount to the fake holes outside the sharkteeth and route air directly to the pads? That would be a cheap solution, although it would mean cutting the stock fascia.

Come on J hook Brake kit

I wouldn't mind seeing someone market something like whats on the Euro GT cup Z, not the most eye appealing solution but its functional, at least you could paint them to match.

http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-g...ismo-370z.html

All that means is that the car is either made with more robust parts and/or has been tuned so it can be raced out-of-the-box. It is given "a" foundation that can be put on the track. It does not mean that it IS a race car that can survive all the rigors of the sport itself or the track without additional extensions being added or made to the car. And I'm sorry I don't see the oil cooler as being considered a "foundation" part. You will find that there are a slew of additional coolers that end up being added to a car that is raced and there is NO MANUFACTURER that is going to make that part of the foundation without somehow passing on the cost of those additional coolers to the person buying the Nismo which will end up putting the car out of range for purchase.

A race car isn't just dragged from track to track and expected to handle each track's UNIQUE character without some kind of physical adjustment being made or added to the car's configuration to make it more suitable for that particular track it is to be raced on. Therefore Nissan manufactures the Nismo as a flagship race design foundation car for those who wish to race it. It is entirely up to you and your pockets to have the money to invest into the car to allow you to have multiple configurations based on the individual types of tracks you intend to race the car upon.

So folks here either have to fully understand, accept and be willing to be constantly reaching into their own pockets all the time OR in the alternative try EARNING themselves a sponsor. And good luck on the sponsor one because NO SPONSOR in their right mind is going to even offer anyone anything unless they demonstrate a willingness and have the propensity to move beyond the infantile fantasies of being a "weekend wannabe".

Racing and RACE CARS are truly packed full with lots of science and physics that some folks here have no apparent comprehension or slightest awareness about. And Nissan isn't going to do nor pay for your education, homework, training or configurations that are needed...but what they do give you is a car with a reasonably good foundation and fair price to begin making your fantasies real.

And one other thing...people here have to f*ck the warranty excuses and rationale. The warranty is on the car and NOT for the buyer's intentions on how the car will be used. It is THAT SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND but apparently far more difficult for alot of people here to accept.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your logic, but it seems to me you're trying to have it both ways. On one hand you want to say that track-ready means it's ready to be raced out of the box. But then you immediately say that all it is is a foundation and you can't really race it without additional extensions. Well which is it? If you can't race it without additional stuff, then it's not ready to be raced out of the box, is it?

As for more robust parts, what parts does the Nismo come with that are more robust than the standard sport pkg? Definitely not the brake pads (which is what this particular thread is about). They're the same pads as on the standard non-Nismo models. I'm not sure why you're dragging the oil cooler issue into this; I don't recall anyone saying anything about the Nismo's lack of a cooler in this thread.

Anyway, the only point I was trying to make was that the Nismo isn't track-ready, or race-ready, or however you want to put it, without a number of upgrades, like the brake pads, for example. I think you and I agree on that point. The same thing can be said for the regular non-Nismo models, or pretty much any other car for that matter, so this doesn't make the Nismo a special exception. But that's my point. There's nothing terribly special about the Nismo as far as track-readiness goes. If the Nismo Z isn't track-ready without additional equipment, then the standard non-Nismo Z is just as track-ready as the Nismo Z; the standard non-Nismo Z is just as good a foundation, as you put it, as the Nismo Z. Both variations require the same additional equipment, do they not? (e.g., upgraded brake pads, oil cooler, etc.) And the only reason I'm flagging this as an issue is because it contradicts Nissan's marketing. Really, it's Nissan's marketing that I have a beef with, not the car itself.

Send it to Car & Driver :icon17: never mind Road & track will get pissed.

I think what is comes down to is, it looks a bit like a 911, so in our subconscious minds, it should perform like one - for 1/3 the price of course. :icon17:

:icon18: x2

Bam. This dude just hit it on the ******* head I think lol.

I doubt Nissan's marketing intent is to promot the Nismo as being track-ready...maybe track oriented...but not track-ready.

I can't imagine the idea of taking a stock nismo and hitting a track with it, and expect it to hold up.

Brakes, diff cooler, oil cooler, maybe a transcooler - at the very least.

One day I'll track my Z, but, I certainly won't be pushing the limits of the car, as my limits are much more conservative - I don't want to risk out out of pocket potentials...

I would however, like to go fast and take some hard corners in a legal environment...as long as there is minimal risk if I lose it and end up "4x4ing" my Z.

:iagree: Perfectly said there Mr. K!! "track-oriented" FTW!!!!

the only car on the market that is track ready right out of the box is the Porsche GT3, everything else needs something to make it ready.

I've tracked my 97WS6 before with some friends with other F-bodies and Vettes, before we go we prep with Dot5 brake fluid and high temp pads. You will go through a set of pads over the weekend and your tires will be pretty much gone depending on how much and how hard your driving. But its so much involved then just drag racing. BTW one magazine just posted a brake job done at the dealership for their longterm GTR. At 26,000 miles the rotors, pads, fluid and labor came to 7,400 dollars, I wouldn't be able to except or absorb that cost.

You're starting to get a reputation around these parts - for having the hottest Z in the area.

No way in hell would I pay that much.

First off, I clearly understand the distinction between a race car and a sports car—as do most, if not all members here. To give you the benefit of the doubt my reference should have been included the full text to Nissan response regarding an oil cooler:My inference was to the line above that I have intentionally made bold (not Nissan) on how Nissan is willing to sell you a Nissan branded product, but supply no warranty (even if installed by a Nissan dealership) as said part is deemed above normal operation. The Car and Driver test did not single out Nissan as Mazda, and Subaru was in attendance too. Car and Driver's suspicion is that Nissan has not designed the cooling aspect of the front brakes well. (Hmmmm…where have I heard anything about cooling regarding the 370Z before…let me think.)

In my response to your post where do I state that I am indenturing Nissan or any Nissan dealership to pay for anything? However, I am at a lost to understand how Nissan can authorize full engine swaps—under warranty—as has been done for forum members, yet Nissan has no faith in neither their dealerships' ability to install an oil cooler nor Nissan's oil cooler design that they sell without providing a warranty? I have had far too many vehicles with the option of additional cooling supplied through the dealership, with factory products, and have not encountered such nonsense until the 370Z. If you follow any of the Japanese blogs you find they mention the 370Z (Z34) propensity to get too hot to quickly. I believe that the press cars first driven on US shores were supplied with an HKS kit (that is actually a two part/two oil cooler kit) utilizing the part that is tucked away at the front of the US driver's side wheel.

Owners' motivation for an oil cooler may not even be related to driving the car enthusiastically, racing, etc, but for the piece-of-mind regarding additional oil and additional oil cooling. Though many of us are more than experienced wrenchers and very capable of installing an aftermarket oil cooler there are reasons that we might choose not to: Factory warranty, time, and circumstance. Some owners are not up to the task of installing an oil cooler (and they admit it). For owners' wanting this product, and willing to pay for this product, it beyond any rational reason that Nissan does not demonstrate even basic faith in their factory branded accessory that cannot, and should not be solely designated as a track/race item; because someone chooses to install an oil cooler does not mean that they will do either. The added benefits to engine and oil life, are nothing more than common sense, if not engineering sense.

Will it surprise me if others learn that the front brakes have insufficient cooling? Not one bit. Will Nissan answer the call? I believe that Nissan would rather obsolete a complete model without anteing-up versus admitting to any of their mistakes. Hence, Nissan's "value-laden" sales pitch approach. Look, we all the know the Z is a value. We get it. Nissan simply needs to pull their head out of their a$$ about issues and at least allow owners' to address the issues—with Nissan parts and warranty—even if it means owners' coming out of pocket.

Original Car and Driver article:The Lightning Lap, 2009 - Feature

ZKindaGuy, are you affiliated or do you work for Nissan?

:iagree:

One thing though... when you walk into a nissan dealership looking at Z's dealers love talking about the nismo, they Love stressing its track readiness. So I would have to agree that nissan is misleading... then again so is everyone else in the auto industry. I mean. They call the GTi a sports car? Lol. The 370z is a sports car but it needs personal touches to cater to driving needs. Its not like a porsche cayman S that is instantly track ready. Still and all, the Z is one of the coolest cars under 40k.
The brake issue... well it was an issue. We would like to believe it was a sh1tty driver or the guy didn't know what he was doing but, keeping it real. It makes sense that a $3,000 sport package that 2k of it are rims will have a BBK that would need personal upgrades to make it a true race brake system. New brake lines, rotors pads and fluid would probably increase performance significantly.
But I do have to agree that nissan amps themselves up. Then a few months later, you find out its really not as much as what it is, then you find yourself modding for improvements. Honestly this is a trait in all jap and asian cars and no one should be surprised. Still and all, looking past the hype. The asian auto market still gives more for your dollar than any other market. Weighing pro's and cons. I still think the Z is worthy.

There's a difference between tracking a car for driver enjoyment and tracking for top performance. You can go out on the track in a Z, standard or Nismo, and drive it in a way you wish you could on the road. In this situation, I believe both models would survive just fine, and better than the average car. Hence, these 'track ready' marketing ads.

Then you have the guys who want to track their road cars like race cars, pushing hard and looking for every tenth, lap after lap. Road cars are not setup for this. Yeah, a GT3 or Scuderia is better suited for track use, but even they are compromise cars, not full fledged track cars.

That said, the Nismo Z probably should come standard with the (now optional) higher performance brake pads. The standard Z is fine with low dust/noise pads, IMO, and stops plenty well for normal/sporty road use.

I disagree. There is a sinister problem with the brakes and I don't believe it will be an easy fix, it is downright dangerous when driven with passion (even on the street) for an extended period of time and this is above and beyond the overheating issue.

You wouldn't make 3 laps around a track in a stock Z even driving moderately conservatively without overheating. As you limp back to the pits you will be passed by a 4-door Honda Civic that will complete the 20 minute session.

The cooking oil temperatures don't bother me as this problem can be solved, however the brakes, even after doing every mod possible (replacement calipers, 2-piece rotors, high-temp fluid, venting) will continue to be a problem. Unfortunately, like Toyota, it will probably take someone dying as a result before they admit there is a problem with the ABS program.

If this is indeed the reality, then Nissan should fix the design flaw, no question.

Although, exclusive of this Car and Driver/Nismo mishap, I don't remember reading a Z road test/comparison test that panned the car's brakes. Not saying these mags are the authority, but Id think one of them would have mentioned unusually bad brake fade/performance during testing.

Bottom line, though, if the Z's basic brake design/setup is a proven safety issue, the manufacturer should step up.

I just saw the first production set of fangs/ducts last week. We will have them on our car on display at our open house this coming weekend. They probably won't have the ducts run yet (time crunch) but everything else will be in place.

No matter what we do with our fascia, our cooling kit will be compatible. Also, the vents/scoops that we designed specifically for the fascia are completed and will be shipping very soon.

I'm looking into a third option (less expensive kit) for the people who want to stick with the factory fascia and don't want to go with our more elaborate cooling kit.

We're very excited about this too!!! Shhhh....

We plan on sending our car to numerous magazine's including Road and Track, Car and Driver, Automobile, and many, many more.

That's actually not a bad price for a complete GT R brake job...Sad...but true...

Source: Nissanusa.com

Purpose-built and passionately engineered, the NISMO 370Z™ features race-bred, factory-tuned, extreme Nissan performance parts and accessories.

____________________

Also, Nissan never repudiated many mags, blogs, etc that were referring to the car as "track-ready". On a Google search of "Nismo 370Z track ready", I came up with tons of links.

I never heard any of that - but then again, the Nismo wasn't out yet.

There was a Nismo Frontier - are you suggesting (in a sense) that the Nismo Frontier is track-ready?

Just sayin...

Also, in your $3K upgrade, you're forgetting VLSD and Synchro-Rev Match.

Race-bred...means it was an Altima got humped by a race car. It's still a mutt...

Think of another main point - the Z shares it's platform (ie, the drivetrain, suspension, dimensions, etc) with the G37 - not exactly what I would think of as a race car.

Again, I - no matter who says what...would never take the Z in stock trim (nismo or not) to a track and instantly start doing "Lightning Laps", time trials or whatever, without doing a number of test runs and practice to get a feel for the car so I don't end up in a wall.

C&D made a point in their follow-up article to state right up front that it wasn't a talent issue - really? How much experience did that driver have with the Z? Why didn't the driver pickup on the fade that was clearly documented by C&D with later testing?


Again, the Nismo, or the Z in general - is not a race car - it's a sports car. It's mean for people who enjoy more power and performance than the average car...you add a helping of luxery and comfort, and you have the G37...

Do aftermarket BBKs like Brembo, Stop Tech, etc have this brake problem on the 370Z?

It might be off-road-ready, which I believe would be it's intended use. Yet after this PR nightmare I have to question whether the Nismo Frontier could seriously contest in any off-road race, of any kind, without 'issues'. :ugh2:

I can't disagree with anything you say, Kan. Yet even car & Driver were dazzled by Nissan's marketing hype and threw it onto a race track in stock form. And as far as I can see, no other cars in the test had a FAIL like the Z.

Which takes me back to the driver being the issue, which is backed up with the point that they noted brake fade issues in their later testing.

Either that, or something else happened which tossed the car off to the wall, other than just the brakes failing - entered too fast, catastrophic loss of traction, etc...

There's no reason that brakes would go from great to piss poor in the space of 1 turn.

Maybe the pads were already worn down and they just melted off the remaining brake material...

I have some questions, a bit noob so please forgive me.

1. The area between the fangs and the normal part of the bumper for the normal z is blocked up... could this not be modified to allow the air through on to the brakes? When I first saw the pics on the internet I thought that was what they were for...

2. If the sports brakes die so quickly, how much quicker would the non sports brakes die? Is the sports brakes on the z just for show to give the car larger rotors or is their a tangible benefit of having these large rotors?

3. Normal cars, the everyday camry or sonata or altima... how quickly will these brakes die if put through the same abuse? Are we talking 2 100-0mph stops and they're done?

I'll be reasonably sad if our sports brakes are just for show and don't really had a tangible safety/performance benefit. They do have great brake feel though...

All this panic.... wow.

I would love to hear someone that actually tracked the car hard nismo or not with sports package. If you have i'm assuming you did have hi temp fluid, steel braded lines, and race pads because that is what you would do to any car that goes to the track let it be a vette or a toyota camry.

If anyone falls into this category then you are welcome to give your input here. The rest of the thread is full of panic and assumption based on an article that was published to justify the stupidity of the test driver that failed to realise that brakes are fading i better slow the fvck down.....

If you upgrade all of the above the brakes may survive a track session when driven conservatively, however it wont survive a track session when flat out for 30 minutes. I've upgraded to the AP Racing kit and even those ultimately suffer the same fate, badly needs cooling vents.

Many of the harder drivers here have experienced the problem, and no there is none of the typical fade warnings before you get there.

How difficult is adding brake cooling duct-work?

To do it right someone needs to develop a backing plate to replace or modify the stock rotor backing plate so that air can be forced around the back of the hub and and through the rotor veins. The stock fang area can be used as an intake.

Pushing air into the wheel well area would also help.

First - I track mine for the fun of it and thrill- (NASA HPDE) and do NOT consider what I do as racing and do not plan on brining it to that level. So in my case when I did Limerock CN (4- 20 min sesions) with Stock Sport Brakes they were OK - nothing scary or no panic- my best lap was about 1:10 typical 1:15, top speed front straight ~ 130-35. Brakes worked consistent and never felt any significant fade- I was comfortable with the brakes but I did get some juddering under heavy brake on the front straight. I have pulled all pads and the wear was probably ~ 20-25% so still had a good 75% left. So all in all for "sport" track use it was acceptable and did feel safe and predictable- but yes all got very hot.
As I plan on a few more events- I figured what the heck might as well do some modest upgrades- SS Lines, Hawk HP+, Super Blue Fluid- so will compare to stock when I do Monticello in June- as I am not hard core racing this set up should be just fine.

Did you cut back your backing plate when the AP BBK was installed? I know it's common to do so when installing a BBK. Also, sometimes I think it can even be removed if I'm not mistaken. If the backing plate is cut back (or removed) such that it doesn't reduce the airflow to the interior perimeter of the rotor, then the veins should be able to suck in fresh air just fine. Yes, a backing plate with a duct to incoming air would be ideal however.

interesting...... So you saying there is no smell, smoke and longer brake pedal travel before the brakes give out????????

Well I read through this thread, so I thought I've give my $.02

Nissan's Nismo marketing
I feel that terms like 'race-bred' and 'track-ready' are not that misleading. It doesn't say 'time-attack ready' or 'competitive racing.' Compared to 90% of cars on the road, if you take it to the track for some 'thrills' (as one member mentioned earlier), it will keep up alright

Comparison
I have raced my RSX-S at the Autobahn in Joliet (full 3.56 22 turn course) from 10AM - 8:30PM going through 4 tanks of gas WITH STOCK BRAKES and only basic suspension work. I kept up the entire day with cars outside my league and had an amazing time. I didn't go through a set of tires or kill my rotors...sure I gave the K20 abuse, but it's still riding beautifully:driving:

Needless to say, this year I'm going to get new rotors, SS lines, and Motul 600, but this is beside the point.

Marketing to Who?
I wish we could get a thread somewhere on who actually races their car and to what extent. I know by me, I recognize most people at the SCCA races and tracking is uber expensive so I'd assume that 1/10 of the SCCA-goers even track. Therefore, I agree that Nissan should not have put an oil cooler in. I think they should warranty and back their Nismo (or w/e) cooler though. If the breaks are dangerous, this issue should be address, but they will never be, nor claim to be, at the true 'track-level' of BBK's and race setups.

Smells are very hard to determine at track speed. Everyone that has attempted the track has at least upgraded fluid, and most have upgraded pads. Nobody has boiled their fluid after doing those 2 things, and pedal feel remains firm.

The upgraded pads hold up about 80% better than the stock ones because they can handle the higher temperatures. But because of the poor ventilation the heat just soaks everything, and temperatures just climb.

^ok if that is true then that is some scary stuff. I'm going to the track before winter (by that time i will have the oil cooler and enough miles to let it rip for extended periods of time), im gonna keep that in mind.

On my G sedan stock sized brakes i did the lines, fluid, pads, and stoptech rotors and they held up pretty well for 7 strait laps at Big Willow.