Nissan 370Z Forum
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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Nissan 370Z General Discussions (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/)
-   -   Car and Driver Crashes a Nismo 370Z (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/12692-car-driver-crashes-nismo-370z.html)

370zdub 12-30-2009 01:30 PM
^^^ I did see the bold part too, but still I believe that in that Nismo catalog they have the upgraded race brake pads there for they are covered on that front.

No where in the Nismo 370Z brochure does it say track car.

Technik330 12-30-2009 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370zdub (Post 348696)
I'm still failing to see where it exactly words the Nismo 370Z is a Track car.
Screw the track part, how about performance car in general? That should be broad enough, by far, to further validate the point.

Factory built "performance" cars shouldn't overheat, or exhibit high oil temps consistently, nor should their brakes/brake pads "fail."

Reliability and longevity are quintessential for a performance car, especially at a $40k price range....

370zdub 12-30-2009 01:41 PM
They are still covered. They did not specifically state "track" car. I understand the frustration and I understand your point. My point is specific to the part that Nissan did not state this as a "track" car and therefore they can't be held reliable for track related failures.

Technik330 12-30-2009 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370zdub (Post 348708)
They are still covered. They did not specifically state "track" car. I understand the frustration and I understand your point. My point is specific to the part that Nissan did not state this as a "track" car and therefore they can't be held reliable for track related failures.
Then Nissan clearly has the most esoteric add for the Nismo Z

I'm just waiting for the Hyundai Genisis to be advertised as a time attack special :roflpuke2::roflpuke2::roflpuke2::tup:

370zdub 12-30-2009 01:53 PM
I never said it wasn't esoteric, I did however say they covered themselves from a liability standpoint.

xfrgtr 12-30-2009 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370zdub (Post 348700)
^^^ I did see the bold part too, but still I believe that in that Nismo catalog they have the upgraded race brake pads there for they are covered on that front.

No where in the Nismo 370Z brochure does it say track car.
Exactly.

pulpz 12-30-2009 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370zdub (Post 348700)
^^^ I did see the bold part too, but still I believe that in that Nismo catalog they have the upgraded race brake pads there for they are covered on that front.

No where in the Nismo 370Z brochure does it say track car.

I guess it begs the question, what's the value of a NISMO 370Z then?

Wasn't the NISMO 350Z track ready? Hell the Track 350Z was track ready.

And, frankly when I looked at the NSIMO 370Z and saw the brakes were identical to the Sport Package, I assumed that was Nissan vote of confidence in the track readiness of the Sport Package.

theDreamer 12-30-2009 02:36 PM
I think what has happened here is that Nissan took some of the "average" feedback from the 350z crowd. Which ended up being, while many liked the upgraded track parts, the majority ended up finding them to not be what they truly wanted. Therefore Nissan tried to make the 370z more "average" friendly, even on the Nismo level or sport package addition.

Technik330 12-30-2009 02:46 PM
^

Pulpz

Maybe it's for peeps who want to "ghost ride teh whip yo" cause the brakes are :owned: from the factory

I don't know, I'd still like to buy a Nismo though, just wish all this :bs: would be fixed by Nissan.

theDreamer 12-30-2009 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technik330 (Post 348777)
^

Pulpz

Maybe it's for peeps who want to "ghost ride teh whip yo" cause the brakes are :owned: from the factory

I don't know, I'd still like to buy a Nismo though, just wish all this :bs: would be fixed by Nissan.
Eh, I think in the end though, adding these parts yourself is not that expensive (both parts & labor). I can understand having it from Nissan with the warranty, but they do one worse like other companies. Ex. Help people sign up for SCCA or whatever and then void those peoples warranties.

370zdub 12-30-2009 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulpz (Post 348765)
I guess it begs the question, what's the value of a NISMO 370Z then?

Wasn't the NISMO 350Z track ready? Hell the Track 350Z was track ready.

And, frankly when I looked at the NSIMO 370Z and saw the brakes were identical to the Sport Package, I assumed that was Nissan vote of confidence in the track readiness of the Sport Package.
I never tried to defend the value of the Nismo 370. I bought a BASE for the exact reason of value.

I just pointed out Nissan covered themselves from track related failures and never directly said it was a "track" car.

I'm too young to know much about the 350Z and the packages offered from Nissan on that car so I won't challenge your knowledge there because I have nothing to counter your claims with.

Technik330 12-30-2009 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDreamer (Post 348781)
Eh, I think in the end though, adding these parts yourself is not that expensive (both parts & labor). I can understand having it from Nissan with the warranty, but they do one worse like other companies. Ex. Help people sign up for SCCA or whatever and then void those peoples warranties.
I think my point is based more on principle than cost. Rregardless of the if you can afford the Nismo, I bet you could afford an oil cooler or brake pads mentality. Again, my point is why buy a factory tuned car that has to be modified to do what a vast amount of other, cheaper, cars do 100% stock all day?

370zdub 12-30-2009 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDreamer (Post 348773)
I think what has happened here is that Nissan took some of the "average" feedback from the 350z crowd. Which ended up being, while many liked the upgraded track parts, the majority ended up finding them to not be what they truly wanted. Therefore Nissan tried to make the 370z more "average" friendly, even on the Nismo level or sport package addition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDreamer (Post 348781)
Eh, I think in the end though, adding these parts yourself is not that expensive (both parts & labor). I can understand having it from Nissan with the warranty, but they do one worse like other companies. Ex. Help people sign up for SCCA or whatever and then void those peoples warranties.
Dreamer, I believe your spot on with what you have stated. Multiple offroad companies have taken a product and detuned it because of average consumer feedback. This detuning left some of the hardcore enthusiasts disappointed but on the whole the average crowd appreciated the new ease of use, and for the hardcore enthusiasts the aftermarket made sure the product could see its full potential.

theDreamer 12-30-2009 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technik330 (Post 348787)
I think my point is based more on principle than cost. Rregardless of the if you can afford the Nismo, I bet you could afford an oil cooler or brake pads mentality. Again, my point is why buy a factory tuned car that has to be modified to do what a vast amount of other, cheaper, cars do 100% stock all day?
Very true, but I could bet many cheaper cars might not keep up with the Z until the Z hits certain limits (brake fade or oil issue) on the track.
I think Nissan is trying to keep the Z in the majority consumer view, seeing as it is a low volume seller to begin with. So in the end the people on the edge of the spectrum will get burned, and in the end you have to choose if spending that extra money on your own time is worth it.

shabarivas 12-30-2009 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technik330 (Post 348787)
I think my point is based more on principle than cost. Rregardless of the if you can afford the Nismo, I bet you could afford an oil cooler or brake pads mentality. Again, my point is why buy a factory tuned car that has to be modified to do what a vast amount of other, cheaper, cars do 100% stock all day?
... did it ever cross your mind that maybe the people driving said car drove it like asshats and never bothered to check the brakes? On "Track" cars you need to be ready to change out pads every couple of track days - so why does that not apply here? If you are buying a track car you better be ready to pay the bills.... dont expect it to run forever...

nicknick 12-30-2009 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCZ (Post 347568)
Umm I said inexpensive if your comment is directed at me....also I think I've spent a good bit over 1k in mods already ;)
Sorry I meant from the factory. I know (well at least me) that i would payan extra 1G to not haave these issues, i know this only applies to track but sometimes peole just like to know the performance is there without actuaally having/wanting to use it, if you know what i mean.

TARDCORE 12-30-2009 04:05 PM
I have the C&D issue when they FIRST tested the NISMO Z. The morons tested it as soon as they drove it off the lot. No break in period, no oil change, nothing. It performed horribly I can post the pic if you like but I am sure most of you read it. Sorry if this is a re post in this thread. I do not like Car & Driver's reviews. Their performance numbers always seem to fluctuate among other cars and this car. Obviously different drivers doing the tests but they seem to be biased towards luxury (especially BMW, man bimmer fan boys rejoice at C&D mags) from what I have seen. I like their magazines but I remember one issue where they tested the Subaru WRX and STI. The WRX had VERY similar numbers to the STI. Ever since then the only reason I pay $20 for 24 issues is for the pictures of the new cars and to see whats new in general and to get a ball park figure of how fast a car is. If C&D says a car runs a 14 sec 1/4 mile, seriously consider adding + or - 3/10 of a second there. And from what I saw from their NISMO test possibly consider adding + or - 5/10 of a second! :ughdance: If only C&D put pictures of hot girls, then itd be worth it just for the pics.

Technik330 12-30-2009 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shabarivas (Post 348833)
... did it ever cross your mind that maybe the people driving said car drove it like asshats and never bothered to check the brakes? On "Track" cars you need to be ready to change out pads every couple of track days - so why does that not apply here? If you are buying a track car you better be ready to pay the bills.... dont expect it to run forever...
That's a creative idea; I bet they didn't check the tires either, on said car. At least half a dozen other auto reviewers drove the piss out of the Nismo Z and didn't have this issue, maybe it was a fluke.

Either way, where's Nissans defense behind not outfitting the "test" Nismo Z's with a half way decent pad for track use? Where's the reasoning for equipping the "test" Nismo Z's with oil coolers, but not better brake pads, and even further not equipping the production Nismo Z's with a factory oil cooler?

370Zsteve 12-30-2009 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370zdub (Post 348696)
I'm still failing to see where it exactly words the Nismo 370Z is a Track car.
OK, I guess the bold type was a bad idea in your case. :shakes head:

theDreamer 12-30-2009 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370Zsteve (Post 348614)
Really? :icon14: From a Nismo catalog, not very hard to find:

NISMO is world-renowned as the premier source for extreme Nissan performance. From Japanese GT racers to Dakar Rally trucks, to the wildest
versions of the Skyline GT-R, NISMO gives you an all-access pass to genuine factory-engineered, dyno-tested, racetrack-proven performance.
And as you’d expect from the same engineers who design Sports Prototypes to run at full sprint for 24 grueling hours, NISMO components are built to last.

Support from the factory means that every NISMO component is thoroughly engineered and rigorously tested to ensure a seamless fit and
outstanding performance mile after mile. Whether you’re a Z driver aiming to outrun Porsches around a track or an Altima driver who wants to sharpen its street-ready edge, NISMO stands ready to take your Nissan to the next level.
The NISMO catalog is not about the Nismo 370z though, they are selling track parts specifically from that magazine. The Nismo 370z itself has only two true Nismo parts, the tune and the exhaust, the brakes, cooling, etc. are all non-nismo parts.

370Zsteve 12-30-2009 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDreamer (Post 348912)
The NISMO catalog is not about the Nismo 370z though, they are selling track parts specifically from that magazine. The Nismo 370z itself has only two true Nismo parts, the tune and the exhaust, the brakes, cooling, etc. are all non-nismo parts.
Exactly my point again! Bad marketing. :ugh2: They are marketing the car (Nismo) as track-ready when it isn't.

theDreamer 12-30-2009 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370Zsteve (Post 348917)
Exactly my point again! Bad marketing. :ugh2: They are marketing the car (Nismo) as track-ready when it isn't.
My point is that it is not, two pieces of the car are Nismo branded, nothing else is so it is not track ready or being advertised as such. Just because it has a Nismo exhaust & tune does not make it track ready. The brakes are a BBK but nowhere does it says "track ready."

Technik330 12-30-2009 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDreamer (Post 348923)
My point is that it is not, two pieces of the car are Nismo branded, nothing else is so it is not track ready or being advertised as such. Just because it has a Nismo exhaust & tune does not make it track ready. The brakes are a BBK but nowhere does it says "track ready."
I believe the Nismo specific parts would be the Nismo suspension, body/chassis dampers, exhaust, "tune/ecu," strut brace, and aero. That's a bit more than two pieces.

That's aside from the "sport brakes" and Advan tires-

That's a lot of additions for a "street/non-track ready car"

theDreamer 12-30-2009 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technik330 (Post 348932)
I believe the Nismo specific parts would be the Nismo suspension, body/chassis dampers, exhaust, "tune/ecu," strut brace, and aero. That's a bit more than two pieces.

That's aside from the "sport brakes" and Advan tires-

That's a lot of additions for a "street/non-track ready car"
Sorry I did forget about the suspension upgrade.
Aero kit is not a big item for track in my view in this discussion.
"Sport brakes" are not track brakes
Advan tires have actually been shown to be on par on lower than the RE50 in some tests.

So we are still at exhust/tune, suspension, not really anything that will make your car track ready in my eyes or even has been mentioned by Nissan as being track ready.

370Zsteve 12-30-2009 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDreamer (Post 348933)
So we are still at exhust/tune, suspension, not really anything that will make your car track ready in my eyes or even has been mentioned by Nissan as being track ready.
Then they should not call it "Nismo"

"Support from the factory means that every NISMO component is thoroughly engineered and rigorously tested to ensure a seamless fit and
outstanding performance mile after mile. Whether you’re a Z driver aiming to outrun Porsches around a track or an Altima driver who wants to sharpen its street-ready edge, NISMO stands ready to take your Nissan to the next level."

midget 12-30-2009 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWeatherman (Post 348542)
Yes Bobo. Yes. There are a lot of people who do. I know you have a lot of pride in your car and this model, but for some of us, this is unacceptable. I went to the Chrysler SRT driving school at Road America. Those were all stock vehicles running all day. Go to an Audi event. Most of the folks here in Wisconsin running all day at Road America are stock as well. Completely. No pads, no fluid, no cooler. Mustang, Corvette, and "Camero" events. Porsche. Mostly stock on all. I've been to them. I've seen it first hand. Talked to the guys. To go play with a bunch of cars that are even cheaper than mine, I have to go buy $2,000 more worth of stuff? You're forgetting the labor costs. I think this is going to be my last Nissan or Infiniti. I've had it with the excuses from them. I'd like to see the base Z out there with the smaller brakes. That's the only one that has only a window sticker below $30K. Those brakes would fry. I bought a $3,000 sport package to eliminate this. Just like you can buy a similar "Track package" on a Mustang. There's no sport in this.

You also picked out the parts you didn't like about my last post, but never focused on the points you thought were strange. Tell me, why are new pads being put on Infiniti FX50's for free, via customer request? Why is my brother's Jeep more track capable than my Z? That's completely stock. Why can my friends Mustang go out and run all day at Road America without the track package and I can't?

Nissan duped me into buying a car that I thought I could play with my friends. Most of their cars are even cheaper than my Z, brand new. The Jeep SRT is more expensive since he has Nav, seat heaters, 425HP, all wheel drive, a trailer hitch, Boston Acoustics stereo, MyGig, remote start, and power seats. If I was able to get all of this on my Z, mine would be a more expensive car than his. Look at a touring w/ sport. I got less than what I payed for. Go ahead and flame me all you want. When it comes to my next car, especially sports car, I can't believe I'm about to say this... I'm going American. They put out what they advertise. A sports car. (I still couldn't do a Camaro though.)
If a set of nice new brake pads and an oil cooler breaks the bank for ya, after buying a Z, why don't you just sell it? Clearly those two small problems, on an otherwise outstanding and inexpensive car, are just too much to overlook. :wtf2: :gtfo2:

theDreamer 12-30-2009 05:12 PM
The "Nismo" name on the car, in my view, is just a name. It is a plate saying that this car has some upgraded parts that are more sporty, some even track ready. That does not make the car, as a whole, track ready though.

Technik330 12-30-2009 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDreamer (Post 348933)
Sorry I did forget about the suspension upgrade.
Aero kit is not a big item for track in my view in this discussion.
"Sport brakes" are not track brakes
Advan tires have actually been shown to be on par on lower than the RE50 in some tests.

So we are still at exhust/tune, suspension, not really anything that will make your car track ready in my eyes or even has been mentioned by Nissan as being track ready.
All good, no reason to apologize. Any way you look at it, is it really a stretch to imagine the Nismo Z as Nissan's shot a weekend track car? I think it'd be a stretch not to view it that way.

I mean if not, why use a base 370z as a platform for the flagship 370 Z? Why not offer a leather interior, navi, or a better stereo?

If not to cut out weight, maybe cost?

370Zsteve 12-30-2009 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDreamer (Post 348942)
The "Nismo" name on the car, in my view, is just a name. It is a plate saying that this car has some upgraded parts that are more sporty, some even track ready. That does not make the car, as a whole, track ready though.
I hate to beat a dead horse, Dreamer, but it's what they said. They should have called it PseudoNismo. No big deal, I love my Sport/Touring Z. Just (finally) reached 1200 miles, the beast is out of the cage!

"Whether you’re a Z driver aiming to outrun Porsches around a track or an Altima driver who wants to sharpen its street-ready edge, NISMO stands ready to take your Nissan to the next level."

theDreamer 12-30-2009 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370Zsteve (Post 348954)
I hate to beat a dead horse, Dreamer, but it's what they said. They should have called it PseudoNismo. No big deal, I love my Sport/Touring Z. Just (finally) reached 1200 miles, the beast is out of the cage!

"Whether you’re a Z driver aiming to outrun Porsches around a track or an Altima driver who wants to sharpen its street-ready edge, NISMO stands ready to take your Nissan to the next level."
Where is that quote coming from?

pulpz 12-30-2009 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370Zsteve (Post 348954)
"Whether you’re a Z driver aiming to outrun Porsches around a track or an Altima driver who wants to sharpen its street-ready edge, NISMO stands ready to take your Nissan to the next level."
.... I think i might put this in my sig...:tup:

TheWeatherman 12-30-2009 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by midget (Post 348941)
If a set of nice new brake pads and an oil cooler breaks the bank for ya, after buying a Z, why don't you just sell it? Clearly those two small problems, on an otherwise outstanding and inexpensive car, are just too much to overlook. :wtf2: :gtfo2:
Because the Z was budgeted for this. I have my 2009 FX35 and a future to think about. Think about what $2,000 buys you. I bought the Z as a toy car. I bought it new, with the sport package, thinking I could have some fun with it when I had some free time. An extra $37,000 for another car was enough. That's all we're trying to say. I don't need to push that to near $40,000 extra for a toy. I really don't need to GTFO.

Mike 12-31-2009 10:12 AM
back on topic, when the brakes go on the track, they go suddenly with very little warning.

pulpz 12-31-2009 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike (Post 350174)
back on topic, when the brakes go on the track, they go suddenly with very little warning.


....which is the real issue.

Technik330 12-31-2009 11:14 AM
The Nismo should be sold as a "kit" car :shakes head:

SeeyaBud86 12-31-2009 11:29 AM
So I read the article and have read most of this thread. It seems like some are complaining about the Nismo 370. Reason I didn't get the Nismo was because I liked the styling on the base sport package over the Nismo regardless if it had around 20 more hp. But thats only a difference of exhaust and tune. The Nismo does have the suspension, but I will say this.

I think if you are going to spend this much on a car I do think it should definately have and oil cooler and brake pads that can play around on a track for the majority of the day. Obviously if you are going to use your car on the track primarily then you will probably just go ahead and order a better pair of brakes/pads. Before I bought my Z I test drove the Evo 10. That is a car that you can take out (stock) to a track anyday and go all day. I decided on the Z because of a couple of reasons. More power, better looks, all around in my opinion, better car. Plus I knew since I was buying it that I could put upgrades on it to make it better. If you leased your Z, or complaining on spending just a little bit more to make your bargain car better, than I suggest that you do a little more research on your car. I had no idea that the Z didn't have an oil cooler, or brake pads not "track" ready, but if those are the only two complaints about the car, then what does it matter. Those are two very easy fixes to an almost perfect bargain car.

Car & Driver do have a bias towards BMW. It seems every new mag that comes out has an article in it as to why the BMW M3 is the world's perfect sports car. They do seem to cut down the Nismo 370 WAAAY too much. They don't even complain about the oil cooler, just brake pads...Easy fix.

pulpz 12-31-2009 11:53 AM
I'm about half way through the article. And in my mind the bias against the 370Z stands out when reading about he Mustang equipped with the "Track Package". Noticeable brake fade after a few laps (prob comparable to 370Z) so why don't they rip the mustang for not having more durable brakes for what is a "track equipped car? They rip the Nismo's "tight shifting" transmission ( no mention of the advantages of synchro rev) but say that the mustang 5 spd is good for what it is. ?!?

I think the car mags are tired of being flogged and blamed for discrediting the domestic auto industry and I think this is another instance where they have swung the other direction. It kills me how overwhelming positive most reviews of the mustang are with subtle qualifiers like (for a solid axle car, for what it is ...etc.) I thin its pathetic that ford has never developed Independent rear suspension.

m4a1mustang 12-31-2009 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulpz (Post 350333)
I'm about half way through the article. And in my mind the bias against the 370Z stands out when reading about he Mustang equipped with the "Track Package". Noticeable brake fade after a few laps (prob comparable to 370Z) so why don't they rip the mustang for not having more durable brakes for what is a "track equipped car? They rip the Nismo's "tight shifting" transmission ( no mention of the advantages of synchro rev) but say that the mustang 5 spd is good for what it is. ?!?

I think the car mags are tired of being flogged and blamed for discrediting the domestic auto industry and I think this is another instance where they have swung the other direction. It kills me how overwhelming positive most reviews of the mustang are with subtle qualifiers like (for a solid axle car, for what it is ...etc.) I thin its pathetic that ford has never developed Independent rear suspension.
Not to get into this again, there was an old thread for this, but Ford did and the Mustang enthusiasts didn't like it.

theDreamer 12-31-2009 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 350336)
Not to get into this again, there was an old thread for this, but Ford did and the Mustang enthusiasts didn't like it.
Yep, we have that thread already.
But I do agree that reviews against the 370z seem a bit biased, but how was it with the 350z came out? I see many reviews putting the Z up against other cars and they complain about noise or slight visibility, and then the compared car loses in all the "tests," costs more, and they talk about some major issues that car has had after a few years of ownership. But wait, the Z will lose in the end because it just does not compete at the same level.

SeeyaBud86 12-31-2009 12:55 PM
Im beginning to think Car & Driver are literally retarded...

In their September Issue they have a new car buyer's guide inside. So I decided to look at what was said about the 370z and the G37...

G37 - "Driver's Choice: Go for the rear-drive 6M coupe for that grownup 370z feel. SUM UP: MORE NIGHTMARES FOR BMW, MERCEDES.
370Z - "All iterations of this superbly balanced two-seater deliver enthusiast-grade driving fun on demand. SUM UP: SPORTS-CAR MOVES, TRUCK-ENGINE NOISE."

Also in the article of the Lightning Lap this is said about the Nismo, "But what made the Z the least track-worthy car we've ever tested at Lightning Lap were it's brakes."

Then they had an under $50k best cars (editor's choice)...
1. Porsche Boxster (this boggles my mind Boxster = suck)
2. 370z
3. Corvette
4. MX-5
5. RX-8

No complaints prior to the Lightning Lap article to the cars brakes...Only engine noise/strain.


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