Actually...even with VDC on, if you stomp the gas while going around 30-40, it'll bust loose and kick the car sideways a bit before VDC kicks in and slaps you back in place. If conditions were right, I could see how VDC's delay would not help the situation enough to avoid an accident.

For example, getting squirrely and hitting a curb...

yeah but why would any sane and rational person "stomp" on the gas in the middle of a turn? ANY car even a corolla can lose traction and crash with something like that. the point is that losing traction and crashing is hard to do in the z and definitely no easier than on most family cars and suvs, except if the driver is deliberately trying to spin the car or is just plain stupid.

OK, so, how do you know what the limits of a car are, without having crossed them?

It's the same thing with a bike, over and over in the safety course (if you take it), you are told not to ride beyond your ability.

Yet, if you don't know you or your vehicle's ability, well, you sometimes get lucky and nothing gets hurt, or something does get hurt...

In my case (with my bike), I ended up riding 80 miles home with a broken wrist (3-pieces), and my wife had a very bruised knee...and my bike, $5600 in damage...bike cost $9500 new!

My fault in that incident - I was riding with a group of people and wasn't comfortable with where I was in the group (in the middle of the pack), and was on an unfamiliar route...misjudged a turn and was on the outside edge, felt like I couldn't get more into the corner due to others around me, so off I went.


With my Z, sure I do stupid crap. Stupid can be fun...really fun. However, I try not to do it where I or my vehicle or other vehicles will get hurt. I've come close enough to know "OK I won't do that again" - in the above example, the OP didn't get that second chance.

I'm sure the OP doesn't think of himself as speed-racer or soemone off of Fast and Furious. He may have used "track terms" but by using them, it was descriptive enough to where I, someone who hasn't gone to a track, would know just about what he's referring to. I have the same problem - too heavy of a foot coming out of corners.

Is that wrong to say it that way or should he have said, I lost control and crashed....then everyone would be asking how...

I've done that while going straight...Stomp the gas VDC on or off, in cool/cold weather. It will break the rear loose enough to kick the ***-end over a good 6-12", depending on the slope of the road and other factors.

I had it on that time, however, if i had it off and was just playing around, I could have potentially lost control of the vehicle.

As for turning while gassing - did that in a parking lot. Spins like a top. Fun as hell too, but more risky than fun cause something could bite and off you go in a direction that isn't planned (or something could blow up)

Anyhow...

LOL... you must not really drive the Z...

I don't get it, I really don't!

Even the best circuit drivers on this planet would tell you not to STOMP on the gas on an RWD in the middle of the turn, you accelerate before the turn, THEN BRAKE HARD take the apex line while FEATHERING on the throttle in the turn! You start pushing down on the pedal smoothly as you straighten your front wheels.

If you want to take the turn sideways, maybe you shouldn't do it on a turn that's a car wide! There simply is no room for error then! I'm 23 and trust me I love driving crazy but this is just beyond the line man.

of course i drive the z, and i drive it hard. but i dont drive like a damn imbecile. stomping on the throttle in the middle of a turn is a recipe for disaster. i turned off vdc and did just that a couple of times in empty streets just to see what would happen, and yeah the results were definitely not good. some idiots it seems like to do that a lot during their "spirited" drives, and when they wrap the car around a tree they complain the z is hard to drive and dangerous :S

I get the sense that some people don't realize they are putting other people's lives at risk with very risky manuvers. Yes, stomping on the gas in the middle of a corner is just asking for... the end result in the OP.

Man, some of the people on this thread...

The OP posted his experience, was honest about it, and half the people immediately act like he didn't know how to drive.

Going to HPDE events does make you a better driver, but it doesn't make you less likely to crash. That's one of the reasons insurance companies haven't supported them well. Good drivers often just reach further into their limits.

And I know - we should all keep it to the track. But if you don't like to occasionally go out canyon carving, why did you buy the car? A track car and a volvo would make more sense.

Thanks, OP, for posting this. It is a good reminder that even experienced drivers can lose it, especially on cold tires in this car. I was in the cold rain the other day and I had almost no traction at all.

Anyway, as you were...

:iagree::iagree::iagree: i've owned 2 hayabusas and 1 ZX11. Screw it no one got hurt lesson learned. I say get back in that Z or another Z and go through that corner again and own it!

that looks like a bad day.

I drive with the VDC off, I count on my abilities to be the limiting factor...seems that many of us aren't as secure lol

It all depends on how hard you push it...

I can't always drive with the vdc on, it takes to much away from the driving experience, common sense #1 accident deterrent

+1 rep for talent statement

sorry about the car....i have my temp warning at 37F and drive accordingly if I'm already out, will not take the car out if it's under 40F with these tires, no way. I don't understand folks turning off the VDC on the street.

Not if you're smooth.,..You'll never notice it. Too many guys here treat the gas pedal like an on/off switch. It's no wonder stuff like this happens..

I've rode that trail a few times since then. It helps that I don't remember which bend it was exactly, but that whole first part of the route I get a bit tensed up.

I've not gone that way with my Z yet - but I plan to.

The pedal is pretty lightly sprung....

That, and speaking for myself, I'm used to cars and trucks that aren't nearly as responsive...

It's kind of like a logarithmic scale versus a linear scale.

Don't be so harsh on the guy,

I did a similar thing on my first car, it was an important life lesson for me and I've become a much more careful driver afterwards and have done defensive and advanced driving courses to improve my skills. Subsequently have earned full life time NCB status form my insurer and for a 25 year old male in Sydney to pay 1.2k per annum on insurance, you Sydney siders will know that's a very good effort.

OP was trying to impart life lessons so that others don't have to learn the same way. OP good on ya... Bad luck, keep safe in the future.

It seems like the Z is too much for a lot of drivers. Amazing how many ppl have totaled their cars. I'm glad everyone is ok but WTF. Maybe some of you guys should get a 2004.5 350z. I hear they handle great.

The OP shows great honesty and humility in his account of his incident (e.g., "ran out of talent') while his critics... not so much.
I can't believe the righteous soapbox that some people stand on when they get behind the keyboard. I'm willing to bet it doesn't match their attitude behind the wheel. Otherwise, why buy a Z other than to look at it being pretty in your driveway?

The OP's use of track terms to describe his off does not indicate "racing moves" being performed on the street. Instead, these terms indicate that he knows the proper line through a turn, where the apex is, when to brake and when to be on the gas.
In my opinion, EVERYONE who drives anything should know those things. I'm pretty sick of people carving into my lane as they cut through a corner, or watching them run wide because they've turned in too early and they're pointing the wrong way at the exit of the corner.
Of course, putting down the mobile and the coffee and driving with two hands would help, but that's another story.

Personally, I'm a fan of the VDC.
As others have mentioned, when you're smooth, you know the system is working, but you don't feel that it's interfering; it actually feels like it's helping you go faster by aiding in car control.
Just this morning, I was raving about how nice the system was as I trail braked to set the nose into a left-right series and started applying the power slightly before the apex as I got the car pointed towards the next turn.
VDC FTW!

I'm a former motorcycle racer, trackday instructor, and SCCA solo driver.
I enjoy my version of a Sunday drive. Take that anyway you want to take it.

but some guy crashed into his garage door or another car while backing out. very skeptical system if you asked me.

Was the tree alright? I hope it wasn't hurt.

Joint PETV. People for the Ethical Treatment of Vegetables!

Glad your ok. Sorry about the Z. It doesn't look totaled i'm guessing around
10 to 11 grand.
As for myself a guy's got to know his limitations i drive with vdc on.

Ummmm, Luna Z. Before you went on a rant, did you realize this thread is from december 12,2009, the op was a member for a month and had a total of 10 posts. One thing you gotta learn quick is this. "Terminology is just terminology". You might get easily impressed with people using track terms here and there but honestly it can be picked up on any forum so, your perception of this op being knowledgeable based off of one or ten posts is moot.
One quote you didn't catch on to was " Live another day and drive a ford". Ok what did that mean? Did he mean he feels safer mustang? Or did he mean? Live another day drive a ford focus or anything ford without horsepower. Either way fords are beneath nissans in overall saftety features and ratings so I really don't get that comment?
Honestly, what I see is an op with a not a lack of knowledge, but a lack of skill set and an underestimation of his vehicle. I also see his experience doesn't lie in high tech import sports cars and has more knowledge of driving american vehicles which have a totally different set of driving dynamics. So he underestimated 270lbs of torque, which sounds weak compared to american high torque muscle. And he wound up spinning out. Yes he's most likely was right about his tires. But that was only part of the problem.
The Z is a short wheelbase sports car and unlike a longer wheelbase GT, the Z has a sort of unstable nature which most underestimate. The car's overall design is for lower speed high handling sports, like autoX while packing the power of a GT racer. The turning radius and lane change cycle of the Z in higher speed and aggressive maneuvers need a certain amount of practice to master. And truth is, most of you buy this car and after the car is broken in, y'all think its mario andretti time. That's why Z forum has more new car accidents than any other car brand forum.
Let's face it, truth be told, a pretty large portion of you on here are underskilled for the cars.you drive. And I'm not saying you can't buy a Z... what I'm saying is take the time to...
A. Learn traffic laws, and common driving etiquette.
B. Acquire sports car driving skill before attempting maneuvers.
You can drive several years and if you never drove, RWD, manual and or a high horsepower vehicle or even just a vehicle of a much different size. I would give myself 5k to 10k miles before I start trying aggressive maneuvers. Id set up track days as much as I can afford to or learn my cars potential in an empty lot.
At the end of the day it sucks that the op had an accident. But by saying he'll live another day in a ford. He admitted that he just disdnt have enough skill in his car to take that turn at that speed, and lacked knowledge of his cars dynamics till after the fact.
Finally, I understand what you mean about members playing the self righteous role when someone makes a lesson learned confession, there's is a lot of blind leading the blind goin on in the forum as well. But the op didn't exhibit anything but honesty and using a few choice descriptive words but he still voided himself enough time to learn his vehicles dynamics.
And you being a scca, track day driver blah blah blah on Sunday, I would think you can see where the op went wrong. Obviously, he applied gas in the turn, in a fwd, that would make you go extremely wide and make the car extremely hard to straighten. On a RWD it will cause the rear to slide out then the wheels will start to spin. If you don't let go of the gas and start to calmly direct your steering wheel back in line while applying 0 to light pressure on the brake you will wipe out. Once you regain stability, immediately press the brake firmly and slow your car down. That's the safest way to fix that problem and that's NOT what happened. He wiped out and vdc couldn't correct it cuz he applied too much gas. Unless this is a toyota and it accelerated on its own? Lol.

I can accept or agree with everything you're saying, except at the end where you mention "VDC couldn't correct it..." He had it turned off.

This thread was linked back to in another thread about VDC, and after reading everyone trashing the OP (yeah, he made a mistake... haven't we all?), I felt compelled to add my two cents. Is that against the rules?

Update from OP
 

Unknown_370 your pretty close to the facts in your response to LunaZ. My underestimate and lack of knowledge of the 370z did have a large factor in my accident, however the number of posts has nothing to do with my ability or commitment to my enthusiasm for Motorsports. Prior to and after the accident I have had several HPDE sessions at BMW and you are correct that the differences in these cars and the Z are significant.

The comment about the "drive a ford and live forever" is just a joke from a long time ago and I thought some of the old school members might catch it. I first saw the comment "Speed kills, drive a Ford and live forever" implying that fords were slow, this was on the rear of '70 Chevelle. So the old Chevy vs Fords.

Now an update: yes the z was totaled, so I waited for the 09s to come down on price at the dealer and in March purchased a new 370z Sports Package and went with the 7at this time. And I'm still engaging the forum periodically and appreciate all the info that this forum has and is pulling together. I am also keeping VDC on and continue to learn the dynamics of the Z.

Oh yeah the tree survived!

Ok... don't take the amount of posts thing wrong. All I was saying is luna Z can't judge your knowledge based on a few terminologies. Not saying you aren't knowledgeable. If u read my post again, you will see that's not what I'm saying. What I was saying is what you already stated. You underestimated the Z and my assumption based on your comment is that you came from a whole other type of car.
I'm most definately not questioning your love for motorsports and different types of vehicles. Also I'm not saying that you don't know how to drive. I'm just sayting you applied too much power in your turn and reason is, you still did not understand the full potential of your vehicle.
I don't recall the old ford ads so I thought you meant you felt safer in a ford. Lol, judging by your post is about an accident you had, that was my interpretation.

It depends on the situation... you can't say VDC could have fixed or not fixed it. If he came into the turn to fast and was trying to stabilize the car and used the proper method to stabilize the car. VDC will kick in and he will succeed in what began as a possible fail of a turn. Now if the driver came into a turn to fast and his instinct went against the general laws of physics that would allow him to correct his mistake. The vdc couldn't correct his lack of skill, therefore the accident will happen regardless.
Vdc is an aid to a skilled driver that may miscalculate a move but can and will recovery from a sudden mistake. The vdc will multiply the evasive maneuver and put the driver back on track quicker than he can do on his own. But when that driver didn't use proper procedure or instinct. He will fail, because VDC is no miracle software. Just like most components of a car. The car can only aid in prevention. VDC can't prevent all on its own.

PS. No one is saying its against the rules. But your analysis of the whole situation is as narrow as the narrowminded members you criticise. And for a so called racer I expected you to post with a more objective view. I do see your frustration though. The OP is being honest and he should be commented with a little more respect. Respect is something that seems to fall short here at times.

In my specific case I do believe the VDC would have compensated for my ignorance with this specific car. And so that is why I started the post. Many factors played a part in my crash and any number of things could have prevented it. It just so happens that the most important part was the gray matter between my ears. Many of the responses have entertained and several have actually helped so it's been worth my time. Think I'll go pull the stop light fuse next........just kiddn'.

I said he made a mistake. How is that not being objective?
"So called racer." Now who's throwing stones?
Okay, listen... you're right. I know that's you need to hear, and you can't tell me it's not, because you've written practically written a novel to make sure I know it's clear that you're right.
God, I love philosophizing tough guys on the internet.
Good day! :tiphat:

Just going to throw this out there... given everything the OP disclosed about his driving experience previously in the thread, your reply was spot-on. Not out of line at all.

And it doesn't matter that you bumped the thread after however many months. Who cares? If anything, it gave the OP the chance to update us on his replacement Z.

UNKNOWN seems to have just wanted to pick a fight. It was his posts, not yours, that implied he had not read the entire contents of this thread already.

This is over. LunaZ wins. :tiphat:

No doubt. I feel you bro. None of us are perfect. We all make are mistakes. N we all have our moments. And that's what can make a forum great. And the info should help those careless drivers think twice about how they drive. :) I just hope u never took it like I was knockin you bro. And good luck with your new Z.

Sorry I am coming across like I was picking a fight. Its not that. I guess my main issue was one comment.. the fact that the op used track related terminology, that suddenly made him an expert that realized his mistake. This is where I felt objectivity was flawed. For anyone to base someones driving experience through one post would be a flawed way to judge someone whether positive or negative
I do agree with most of luna Z's statement but I also disagree with him but I just felt his post went to the left at certain points. Certain issues in the topic are overstated and some understated. That's where hostility reigns in most of these threads. I would not pick a fight and luna Z I apologize if u think I'm picking. I upset u. Sorry. Crucifying someone is not my style. Its not like I'm putting up stupid pics and calling luna names. I'm not into that.

As far as this being an old post goes. I just found it strange that someone would pull this particular post 7 months after the fact. But now I understand it was part of an attached VDC post. Which I must say is another overstated issue on the forum IMHO. But hey,,, knock yourselves out.

No hard feelings. Ill shut up now.

I like kittens

If the car oversteers when youre not trying to make it oversteer, you should either be in an emergency maneuver or under extraordinary road conditions (ice, mud, etc). Sliding should never really be a surprise if you have any idea about what you're doing...

Experience isn't just about knowing what to do when it does happen, its more importantly about how to keep it from happening in the first place.

People need to start thinking "what if" a little bit more..."what if I lose control here? where does my car end up?" is it a risk worth taking? Probably not.

Exactly. You should know exactly how the car is going to react to what you're doing right now and what you are about to do at the next corner or wherever. Nothing should come as a surprise!

+1 RCZ.

Is the deer in the road a surprise?

For the deer or the driver? Probably both. :D

Settle down ladies.