E85 Conversion: This is much more complicated than anticipated
 

So I'm going to go the corn fuel route for a bunch of reasons and need to know what I need to do to prepare. So far I have:

-Fuel pump. Currently running a Walbro 255lph. Do I need to go higher?

-Injectors. Currently have Bosch 645cc. Do I need to bump those too?

-Fuel return system. Do I need one? If I do, what's the difference between the AAM system and the Concept Z system (other than the $200 price difference)?

-Hill's will handle the extra tune map that I'll need.

-Have a handy app on my phone that shows me where all of the corn fuel stations are around here so I won't run out of gas

What can I expect in terms of HP/Tq bump? What else do I need?

1000cc injectors and at least a 340 lph pump.

Return fuel is not necessarily required. Talk to CJ (phunk).

Gains up to 20%, expect more than 10%.

When looking at e85 gas stations remember that your mpg will drop significantly.

Thanks. That's what Frank (Hill's) said too. Going with Injector Dynamics 1000cc, Aeromotive something 340lph pump and a re-tune.

Also going to go ahead and upgrade the clutch while I'm at it. Southbend stage 2 street something or another.

Since you're SC and won't be turning up the boost, are you really going to see those 20% gains? All you could do is add a lot more timing, right? I'd expect some gains, and a lot more detonation resistance and a cooler intake charge, but not the massive jump turboed guys are seeing. I'd still do it if it's readily available around you, but just as a safety measure and any big power gains would be a nice surprise.

Are you going to be running E85 all the time, or switching back and forth with pump gas? Isn't it a big pain to switch since you've got to make sure the tank is completely empty of pump gas so as to not dilute the E85 down?

Also what Frank said. He said I'd see a bump but not a huge one. I'm fine with that. I'm doing this mostly as a safety precaution.
I will be running E85 all the time but will have a tune map for pump gas in case of emergency.

Any idea how E85 works with emissions?

Isn't it cleaner burning? I thought that was one of the reasons our government wanted all of us to switch. Well, that and the huge campaign contributions from Big Agriculture. :rofl2:

I wish E85 was an option around me. I'm getting jealous.

It's everywhere around me. I have 5 stations in a 5 mile radius.
I think it is "cleaner" but stinks to high heaven so who knows.

It doesn't stink, it smells fabulous.

E85 isn't cleaner burning it turns out...It used to be marketed as cleaner burning but recent studies prove that to be false.

And just to add to it

340lph pump and ID1000s like I said a year ago.

Really interested to see how it bumps the power on the SC though. I don't know that we have seen this particular combo yet.

A year ago I wasn't sure whether this sort of upgrade was in the cards and I certainly didn't have the budget for it after the SC install fiasco. I'm also going to have him run a compression test while it's in there because I'm paranoid.

Car is going in for the conversion on Monday evening. Depending on the findings with the clutch, I'll either repair the stock clutch or go with a Southbend stage 2 street. Leaving that part up to Frank.

*Frank the mechanic, not Frank the dog

Curious about the results, been thinking of e85 for my SC but also want to throw on a smaller pulley to bump my PSI up to 10 (only have the stage 1 SC unit though).

Pulled the trigger today. Car is at Hill's. Just bought the 1000cc ID injectors and a 340lph fuel pump.

Fun story: I have to figure out a way to get a bunch of E85 gas to Frank for him to to tune it (and for me to drive it home). He has a race shop he uses but they charge like 3x what I'll pay at the pump. I'm going to go to home depot and buy a couple 5 gallon cans, fill them up and have my girlfriend haul them up there since she works in the area. She is going to be pissed.

Dreamer, I'll post dyno sheets for you once we're done. With the lower pressure/heat, I'm going to tell Frank not to hold back on power and see what he can do.

Edit: Also Frank caught a small oil leak that was giving me f'ing fits. I knew it was coming from the general vicinity of the SC oil cooler but couldn't nail it down. Turns out there was a pinhole leak in one of the oil lines that only manifested when the car was pushed hard enough/oil got hot enough. Nothing like waking up to a puddle of oil underneath a FI converted car ajsdafn

So besides e85 fuel, the only other changes you are making are injectors & fuel pump (and a new tune but of course).

In other news, someone buy my old injectors and fuel pump. Thanks.

Engine-wise? Yes.

I may drop in a new clutch depending on what Frank says. I have issues in 2nd/3rd when I drop the hammer. There are slight/half second "dead spots" in acceleration where it feels like the clutch is slipping slightly.

Frank says it may be too much juice for the stock clutch. SC combined with the new diff is putting too much stress on it and it just can't hold. I actually had it break wide open under stress in 3rd with the pedal to the floor at high RPM. Funny though, I didn't get that burning clutch smell.

Have had that happen to me also, I still have not upgraded (on stock) but I know mine is slowly failing. If I go hard my clutch is stuck in 3rd gear and I have to slow down and wait and then re-engage, plus some flat spots now and again.

I knew it wouldn't last forever but I figured I'd just run it nose first into the ground until it was time to buy a new one. Not like I could sell a used OEM clutch anyway right?
Also "flat spots" is exactly what it feels like. It's a half-second hesitation.

Me being paranoid, I was afraid I had a piston misfiring or something, then I was convinced my oil smelled wrong.
Turns out I'm just paranoid (but I knew that already).

If nothing else, the E85 conversion buys me some peace of mind.

My tuner was working on my car was trying to fix my flat spots as we first thought it was a tuning problem, and it helped but after some driving we concluded it was probably the clutch slipping. Never finished my WOT tables so I do not go full boost, but after thinking instead of going back now I just want to jump to e85 and do a complete re-tune from the ground up.

That's exactly what I'm doing. New injectors/new pump so I'd have to do it anyway. Only this time, I'm not worried about blowing the motor so I get to see how far I can push it.

Clutch slippage is very easy to see in a data log of rpm vs rear wheel speed sensor over time

Updates?

Update(s):
-Clutch wasn't slipping. I have a faulty BPV that sticks open sometimes which resulted in that weird "slipping/power loss" feeling.

-BPV is being replaced with one that does not require regular maintenance which is a good thing since you can't get to it without removing the bumper.

-Frank is going to call the guy from CJ motorsports/forum member guy to figure out how to fix the fuel pressure issue. Once the big injectors and pump dropped in, on pump gas we were seeing north of 70psi (lol). I mean technically, it probably doesn't need to be fixed if I'm going to run around on E85 all the time but I'm somewhat of a perfectionist and also want that pump gas tune to fall back on. I sent Frank the CJ thread from the FI forums and off he went.

What BPV are you looking at, it might be the cause of my power loss when we were doing my WOT tables. We were thinking it was clutch also, but could not put a definite answer at the time (still need a new clutch but may as well replace the BPV to something better).

Frank is the man. He has a G37 in right now with the same SC kit having the same issue and once my car came in, he put 2 and 2 together.
Looks like I'm going with this:

Synapse Engineering | Official Page for Blow Off Valve, Wastegates, Intake

Apparently, the Turbosmart BPV requires "regular maintenance" and this one does not.

Haha man, this has turned into a meeting of the minds.
Frank, working with the guys at CJ Motorsports and the guys at Z1 now have a gameplan. Unfortunately, it's going to cost more money (because of course it is).

Drilling out the swirl jet resulted in a small pressure drop but not enough to run the car safely. I am upgrading to a stage 1 CJ Motorsports fuel return system along with the Synapse BPV to go with the AEM fuel pump and the 1000cc ID injectors.

Paid for the parts today. With a little luck, it will be done next week.

Oh and if anyone wants to check it out in-person, it'll be in the Hill's charity car show this Sunday. Can't vouch for how clean it's going to be seeing as it has been sitting in a garage for a month and a half now.

tl;dr summary:
1) 1000cc injectors on this car are very difficult to wrangle
2) E85 tuning is a bitch
3) 1+2 = tuning nightmare but our 370z.com sponsor brain trust seems to be pretty confident that they have a solution.
4) Turbosmart BPVs require frequent lubrication or they'll stick and eat themselves.

Is this the Synapse model you got: Synchronic DV Replacement Kit for Bosch BPV: Official Synapse Store | Buy our DV, BOV, and Wastegate with Synchronic Technology and more | Synapse Engineering

Synapse P# DV001A.003
DV001A.003

Here's the fuel return system:
http://shop.cj-motorsports.com/CJM-S...tem-370zs1.htm

This thread should be moved/archived once I'm done with it to prevent future headaches.

So Hill's ordered the wrong valve. The correct part number is DV001A.006 (slightly different flange). Moving this discussion to my main build thread. Don't want anyone to end up with bad information.

Build thread located here:

http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...k-out-lot.html