Sacrificing low for high? idk help?
 

If I install Stillen Gen 3 intakes and berk hfc with a fast intentions 12 inch cbe, will i be loosing some low end hp and torque for high end only?

No.

You'll still get gains through the whole band, just bigger gains up top.

The reason I asked is because i searched all the previous thread about this topic and some people said it does. I was curious. I just would like more people confirming this for me so i can go buy these items.

:iagree:
Then you can get an intake manifold from me to boost your low/mid even more too

LOL! really? what kind of manifold is it?

Read Chris's signature, lol
Shoot me a text or a PM
(31O)eight nine three-42O7

hum... If its what I think it is, I see what you are doing now .. heheh
I demand a share on those sale :)

LOL!!! I'm not doing what you're doing, but the forum gets a share :-)

What's going on!?

Fuh-gettaboutit

Wait... You're selling your car???

Lol! yeah but im buying a 40th right after selling. 100% i saved up 4000 cash for down payment.

You might lose low end without a tune, and def will lose low end while you car "adjusts" to the mod

Not with HFC's and stock headers.

He'll immediately pick up power throughout the band, even before the tune has worked in. He'll just pick up more up high, over time, than he will down low.

Maybe, but i def noticed a "lag" in low end after my g3 install. But after a few days it seemed to pick right up. Maybe it was just me. Either way, the pros out weigh the cons for both mods.

Every car is going to studder if you do a mass of mods all at the same time and the ecu doesnt have time to adjust. If you do em 1 by 1 and even have even a week between em, your car will transition smoothly. Then you get to a point like me where I had all bolts ons and no tune and the car ran ridiculously rich as the computer could no longer compensate enough lol.

Also, you have to take in to account this key question: Are you talking about Open or Closed loop?

I would think that in Closed loop, at low RPM you'd probably be fine because the sample rate of the MAF/O2 is high enough that the ECU can adjust, but at high RPM it may fall a little flat until learned data is adjusted.

In open loop, I could perhaps see a few % drop at very low RPM (sub 3000RPM) until the learned data is updated, but you'll definitely have measurable gains above ~3K or so because it's at those RPMs and higher that these aftermarket parts' higher flow and lower resistance actually makes a difference, tuning deficiency or not.

There's tons of exceptions depending on what parts you pick and how they were designed, but for this guy, he's not gonna see any meaningful drop off in power or torque except perhaps immediately off idle. Which doesn't matter, really.

If the OP is worried about it, just cruise one gear lower for the first day or two until the ECU has time to learn, and do a few WOT pulls in 2nd and 3rd gear so that it can get some good data to learn from. Start @ 2K RPM in 2nd and hammer it to redline, upshift, slow to 2K again in 3rd and hammer it to as high as you feel comfortable on the highway.

This will put enough load on the engine that the ECU can gather meaningful fuel deltas to adjust the learned compensation data.

/endnerdgasm.

Edit: and for the unintiated, Open Loop is wide open throttle, Closed is part throttle (aka, normal driving).

The car uses the MAF tables and learned fuel compensation data to determine fueling in Open Loop because engine RPM is generally changing too fast to compute the deltas real time using the MAF and O2 readings. This is due to mechanical and electrical latencies. This is done in pretty much every car on the market because the O2 sensor is the real limiting factor, being that it isn't inside the combustion chamber and the element that does the measuring doesn't react in nanoseconds or anything.

What If i only install Stillen Gen 3 intakes and Fast intentions cbe. Will i loose low end hp and torque for high end?

Well, technically Open Loop is "control based on static tables + learned trim values" and Closed Loop is "control based on sensor feedback directly". You can have Open Loop without full throttle. Normally only during initial engine warmup, but also if you screw with your ECU settings too much it can stay open full time because it never sees the right conditions to enter Closed (I had that: from putting the idle high and adding fuel at the bottom of the rev+pedal range. Car drove great, but never-ever entered Closed Loop. Didn't even notice until I needed to get it to pass an OBD-II inspection and it would never complete a Drive Cycle).

Back on the original question: Gen3+HFC+CBE shouldn't really hurt you anywhere in the rev range once the ECU adjusts. LTHs do hurt the very bottom end of the rev range, sub-3K. It'll get a little laggy digging out of that hole in high gear, but it's not a huge thing. There's really no reason to care about sub-3K performance anways. If you want the car to do interesting things, downshift more :)

Everything this man said is correct.

I was dumbing it down to how the ECU behaves with stock tables after warm up cycle. It's absolutely true you can go into Open Loop without going WOT, but it's usually @ fairly high throttle openings or if there's something wrong.