ITB's?
 

Would ITB's ever come to fruition for these engines?

You would think if the gain from exhaust and intakes alone are huge, imagine what ITB's would do.

Great throttle response etc.

Sure its alot of money, but with everything (I/H/E, tune, suspension, brakes, cams, motor mounts, gutting, etc) this car could have serious potential against alot of cars out there.

360whp with ITB's "can" be realistic. Now if anyone is willing...thats a different story LOL.

ITBs are good for making power but the cost is so high and tuning is difficult.

Also to my understanding cams are not part of the equation for the VHR because of that essentric cam being adjustable.

the VVEL changes as you drive...so no cam swap there

Ohh ok. Just like the toyota's then with the VVTI. Damnit another brick wall to be in our way LOL.

But NA hp for hp will always smack FI. 330whp NA vs. 340whp turbo...turbo looses sorry :(

Just wanted to know if it was possible.

Thanks,

Regis

Not like VVTI at all. There really is no cam on the intake side of this car.

Ok so even if there really wasnt an adjustable cam on the intake side, if a CAI improves 15hp u would think ITB's would ad a nice touch as well.

They work best at high rpm's and considering the fact that these cars rev around 7.5k I am pretty sure it would be advantageous for track days etc...

I just know that on a track an good ITB setup will smack any FI setup because of throttle response and the fact that 330hp ITB'd will still smack 350hp FI.

While the FI setups will be around 500hp I see lag as an issue. But on a tight nit track the FI wouldnt be able to get to its top end/higher speed range and therefore fail in actually beating the ITB setup.

Now on a track like fujita or laguna seca the FI will have an advantage but a track like Infeneon Raceway or willow spring's the ITB in theory should be king.

Of course with a skilled driver!

And there's always the fact that they look cool as hell and they sound mean as hell lol.

No because our 2 throttle bodies aren't doing anything much besides being used for emissions purposes. These things are 100% open all the time. There's a large stepper motor in the back that continuously controls the actuator for intake valve duration and lift, and that's our throttle.

I'm confused...So even if we had 6 individual throttle bodies going directly into the intake there would be no real advantage? You know like velocity stacks etc..

I'm still confused lol

here's an example..

[img]http://jdm-insider.com/Blogs/Eric/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/itb.jpg[\img]

LOL!!! This is pretty new to our cars since the G37 (first to have VVEL). Read up about it. There's videos demonstrating the system.

I'm confused...So even if we had 6 individual throttle bodies going directly into the intake there would be no real advantage? You know like velocity stacks etc..

I'm still confused lol

here's an example...

http://jdm-insider.com/Blogs/Eric/wp...007/12/itb.jpg

Ok I will read up about VVEL, I am kind of getting the picture...

It's not the throttle that directs the flow its the lift action on the valves?

Sounds complicated LOL

You're not going to get 360whp with just an ITB setup on this car. You're going to have to go the balls-out N/A route:

Higher compression.
Agressive N/A cams.
Huge valves.
Port/polish.

Waste of money. A single turbo will do the same for 1/5th the price.

EDIT: Apparently you can't swap the cams anyway. Don't bother. Without a cam profile that can take advantage of the new setup, you're wasting your time.

What? You couldn't be more wrong.

Can you explain....

From my point of view a turboed engine has a much flatter power curve beginning at a much lower rpm than an N/A engine. More power for a longer amount of time = faster car.

Geezus... Look, you CAN make ITBs work, but it'd be pointless on this motor unless you can change the intake profile on the VVEL. Yes, you can make the VVEL handle them better, but all you REALLY need on this motor is a bigger air inlet since the throttle bodies don't have anything to do with the intake system. Getting the ITBs to fit would require making VERY long primary runners which can increase torque a lot but you won't see as much help with HP.

I'd suggest that someone removes the blades from the throttle bodies to increase CFM and see how that goes first.

Ok so it shoudnt be done. I get it.

I like the idea of removing the flap/valve in the throttle body.

And for the NA vs. FI argument...its just common sense.

Better throttle response = quicker acceleration at any speed.

Permitted both cars are running at the same RPM or in their respective power band the NA setup will always smack an FI setup as long as the HP variable are similar. 360NA vs 370FI 360 NA wins.

On a road track is where the NA setup will win as long as the HP variables are similar. Coming out of a corner (after the apex) if the throttle is applied at the same time with FI vs NA the NA will respond quicker giving it more of an advantage.

They did a test with 2 civics (yes I know civics but they are still cars so dont bother LOL) one was a B18 with 230hp NA and the other was a B18 with 250hp. The turbo was slower by .8 seconds on the track.

I do not have the link because I read this in a Magazine a while back at Barnes and Nobles (bookstore).

When you shift you loose boost unless you have the new porsche turbine that has continously variable turbine blades (intake side). It produces boost at Idle since it forces the blades to spin during any vaccum.

So on a road track where a car shifts all the time the NA setup will shave seconds off of the FI time provided it is the same driver with the same technique. Because the power curve is the same at all RPM every shift as the dyno sheet states (NA) it is more advantageous to a turbo, whereas with a turbo the power curve varies while shifting because of loss of boost when depressing the clutch etc..

I thought turbo was the most beneficial as well but I was proven wrong and that is why I praise the NA route.

Formula 1 is NA for a reason, at least that's what my dad told me.

So in absolute technicality if a 200hp 160 trq NA setup were to race a 200hp 160trq turbo setup without a DOUBT the NA will win if its on the same track using the same gears, shifting technique etc.

in good regards,

Regis

Oh and for those wondering ITB's with a turbo setup is very beneficial as well.

But for the NA setup to be king vs the FI setup it must be ITB's otherwise throttle response is scarified...it should still theoretically win but ITB's or ICR's (little carburetors with velocity stacks setup like ITB's...common for motorcycles prior to 2001) have crazy response.

We'd all be curious to see how much restriction can be removed from the intakes and manifold while reducing air temperatures. Maybe I'm going nuts, but the Z starts to feel sluggish when ambient temps exceed 90F.

Without going to the extremes of tucking the intake filter behind the bumper (since I prefer ease of maintenance), it would be nice to see aftermarket support for improved intake manifolds and whatnot to reduce restrictions and temperatures.

In that case get a meth/water injection kit. This will only keep the cyl head temps lower but in tern it will lower the air temp as well.

A little droplet of water will absorb a lot of heat without getting hot fast enough to match the temperature it is absorbing by the time combustion takes place.

Meth Injection, ram air setup, removal of butterfly valve in TB/intake port. Manifold wise I have no clue, but those three things that I just previously stated should reduce temps and improve velocity.

Faster air = cooler air. Higher octane = better cooling.

So for cheap mods, channel some HVAC to the CAI or whatever intake you have via the front bumper, you can always get a drain plug to plug the hose when it rains. Get some Octane boost (not because it will give you more power but because it will reduce cyl head temps intern making the air cooler (denser) while being compressed and therfore giving you your power back or giving you more depending on your ECU learning curve.

If you run 91 octane try finding a gas station with 93. If not just get 89 and put in some octance boots (STP) it should up it about 5 numbers so around 94.

Thats all I can think of other than getting a new intake manifold

Oh there's a reason alright. They made F1 cars N/A because they made way too much power and were way too fast while turbo. I believe they were north of 1800hp or so. I don't remember.

The fastest and quickest cars in the world are F/I. Period. I'm actually wondering what fool would get a turbo kit and only leave it at 370whp or so if they can get MUCH more from the motor with a better setup.

Aren't the valve-covers filled with oil (to lube the VVEL system)?

If so, I imagine that all that oil would retain heat a lot more than a few drops of water could do.

Look up meth/injection on google...its a very common setup for supercharged engines as well as turbocharged engine.

Suby's get around 15+hp just with the kit and their cyl head temps go way down.

Look...as for the NA debate I dont give a doo doo if the fastet car in the world has 20 turbos and its the fastest one.

I AM SAYING that HP FOR HP N/A wins. Get that through your head, I dont care if a turbo can have 1800hp, I am saying that HP for HP 300 vs 300 or even 310 FI the 300 NA will win on the track.

End of story.

NA is more reliable as well. Nascar, Indy, F1, Moto GP all NA...go figure lol.

I agree that turbo's are the fastest top speed wise, and that they have the potential to rape NA's because of the whole HP per litre issue, but NA is always more rewarding. Better throttle response is a winner in my book.

I love turbo's dont get me wrong, but you saying that HP for HP FI wins i'm sorry but your argument is false.

Of course this has to do with the same car, same engine etc...

in good regards,

Regis