I will be the first (maybe Semtex) on the next best thing, but the design of a short ram intake has been proven time and again not to work on this car. Open filters behind the radiator just does not work, yet, especially that high up and close to all the hot air.

Believe me I hear what you’re saying but the dyno doesn't lie. On top of that what would they have to gain by tweaking something. Please don't think I'm here to argue with anyone I'm just giving my opinion on what I'm reading, so please everyone with the G3 don't start bashing me for voicing my opinion.
Kindest regards,
Tom :tiphat:

SWEET!! I am impressed as I thought Stillen would come out on top.

Question: Would the exhaust mods you had installed affect the outcome of these intakes power wise?

Question 2: I would assume that with the hood closed it truly simulated conditions under the hood in the real world heat wise. True? Or would it be worse (not talking bumper to bumper traffic)....

What is the going price for Top Secret's Intakes?

Problem is most dyno's have fans simulating 15-30mph which is like asking someone to take a fitness test in a sauna. Thats why I think shorties lose out alot during dyno tests. Real world data logging means more to me when it comes to testing intakes in this manner.

Anyway - The results dont really surprise me. Its been common practice for ages now that intake makers would have it lean out a bit to make more power.

So far, ModShack has it right going with samco style hoses all the way threw. I would like to create a samco hose style intake system in Stillen G3 style. I think that would be the best combo as they seem to repel heat better than the standard aluminum on most of these intakes.

~Any change other than the intake could change the results, but no way to truly know. It is technically an equal comparison since both ran with the same performance mods.

~The only "true" test on a dyno is hood closed, bumper on. Some will say for SRI setups a hood open run will represent a "more realistic" result, but with the hood open you are pumping in more air with that hood open where it would never get that air in the real world.

Thanks... So this dyno test pretty much tells the true story....

How much is the TS CAI and Titanium exhaust again?

Well, Top Secret gear is not only difficult to get, it's expensive. However, time after time, they prove that you get what you pay for.

The good news is: Ken at www.swatperformance.net (forum sponsor) can not only obtain these items, he can get you a good price!

He's a great guy and a Nissan guy through and through.

hmm, I'm not doubting the results, just the validity of the test. I think you maybe have momentarily leaned out the car when you put the short rams on.... might wanna retest next time when the ECU has had more time to adapt to the short rams. I love top secret, but it doesn't make a difference who makes the short rams. We have seen it time and time again that the long tubes make more power. All I'm saying is that if you gave me both for free, I would have the Stillen on the car...

I mean no offense, nor am I trying to start beef. Just my 2 cents.

Heres the deal, none of us here were there, basically meaning that we all have to assume that this test is true, and the results really occurred. However, not being there and seeing independent results with SR intakes time and time again, hood open or not, they either see ZERO gains or lose power throughout the power band. People, it makes sense, look at where the G3's are located, away from the hot engine bay, directly in front of the one piece that keeps the engine cool, the radiator, i/e best possible location for cold air to come through. A filter sitting in costant heat with temps easily over 200, vs. a system that pulls in air only 8-15 degrees above ambient, im sorry but regardless of any opinions i hear about SRI's, science and proven tests show that NO SR will make good power on this car.

and btw, im not only saying this because I have the G3's, im sure Injen owners will agree with me as well, they are true cold air intakes. The HKS/Takeda/JWT/ and this one will in no way produce better numbers than a true CAI.

I agree. Maybe it's a design secret and we'll never know, but i'd love to understand the difference between the previous incarnations of the short tube, like takeda's or something. Top secret is great, but i continue to wonder how they've succeeded where previous have failed.

exactly.

And i'm not trying to hate. The engineer in me is just very, very curious. Without being there i can't help but question!

The tests that were posted were done with the hood down and bumper on, so they were as "Real World" as we could get. As far as the validity goes, we had the Stillen Intake installed, and it was driven roughly 30 miles and WOT multiple times before the Dyno. It was then switched to the TS, and the same was done. Its a fine line between letting the ECU adjust and not taking too much time in between tests. In the end, no test is perfect, but this is as close as anyone can get.

As far as the mod's are concerned, (and yes we are aware that some of these do not add power, but still should be disclosed) so far they are:

Either TS or Stillen Intake
Stillen HFC
Stillen Headers
Top Secret Exhaust
AP Racing Big Brake Kit
B&M Short Shifter
ACT Clutch Assembly
NST Pulley Kit
I-Forged 20" Spring Rims
and a few others that don't affect a dyno run.

In the end, we are all still surprised at the results. We welcome any other questions that you guys might have. Bottom line, for the current set up that we have, the TS intake reaps greater benefits than the Stillen. Both excellent products either way. Maybe we will redo these tests with more mod's on next week and a few forum members can come watch??? Up to you guys!

Thx. The only thing I am thinking is that the TS intake had an advantage with the TS exhaust. You said Smokey stated the TS Intake and Exhaust were tuned to work together.

Would that have any bearing on why the TS intake came out on top?

What were the baseline numbers? Did I miss that?

:tup:

i kind of predicted peoples reaction to this one :tiphat:. i think phelan got it right though, i think somehow theres a design quirk that sets TS apart. perhaps just like the AEM technology or the inner cylinder/tube by the MAF in the injen intakes. although, i would like to see videos of the dynos and hear how that set up sounds?

I agree. I will not be convinced until I see another dyno run with AFR results.

Must be that TS sticker on that intake, I know it!!

I find it weird nobody is addressing Red370 or RCZ's valid questions. Only the positive questions are getting a response.

man its simple... there is no way a SRI is better than CAI.. maybe in first run the SRI have a chance to win the CAI.. but after 2-3 runs it will drop to stock... and after 6-7 runs lol it will lose power bcuz of the hot air

Dyno and AFR papers would be nice to see...Just like others I was surprised with the results...

All in all great job for doing a comparison on these two products

:facepalm:

read this again:

I'd love to see Stillen do the same comparison test. :stirthepot:

$1,100.00???? Deal of the century! I hate it for anyone that falls into this trap.

you can find the Takedas and JWT's for less than $300!:rofl2:

The results surprised me too. I'm a complete noob to most of this and credit this forum for most of what I know. Given that, I expected the Stillen to walk away with this test.

Here are a couple of points I've considered:

The "bud" design of the HKS filters seems to be more directional than the "K&N-style" filters of other short rams, which seem to take in air from all around them. Could it be that the base of the bud filters acts as a heat shield and the airflow coming from the front and bottom of the car (where the buds are pointed) is not really heated at all at the point where it's taken in by the TS intake?

Could the length of tubing in the Stillen or Injen design be conducting heat throughout the intake, therefor containing the column of air through a longer tube than the short rams and allowing for more time and surface area throughout its length to heat the incoming air?

That said, could thickness of, or bends in, the tubing contribute to this?

Is the filter medium in the buds less restrictive than in the K&N-style?

Is a larger surface area actually facing the airflow in the buds? (Again, the "directional" aspect of their design)

Just some points I've pondered as to why the TS might outperform or equal (which was my vote, BTW) the Stillen.

In the end, the marginal advantage to the TS is not worth the cost for me. If money were no object and I only accepted the best, like on this Mothra car, yeah -- strap on plenty of Smoky's gear. But for a little more than half price, the Stillen performs almost as well. That's right on-mission with the 370Z and where most of us regular guys end up.

Still, you have to hand it to Top Secret and their ability to take designs one step beyond and eek out a little more performance. Those who appreciate that committment and who are willing to pay for it will always get their money's worth.

If they indeed managed to control where they're getting the airflow from on a short tube, that may be possible...for a limited time. I think it would only provide a short term boost in power, eventually heat soak will start to affect the intakes. The way the short tubes are set up in our engine bay, the entire intake is just too close to the engine to get a good amount of cold air into it. Which is why many of our forum members here are adamant that you need a long-tube CAI instead.

If the air flow through the intake was really slow maybe. But considering driving at cruising speeds, you have a great deal of air moving through those tubes, the heat transfer from the surface would be minimal. Again, I think the concern was more towards the temperature of the air drawn in. Short tubes are already at a disadvantage by drawing in the hotter air in the engine bay.

This is where my design question came in. What material did TS use? What is the thickness? How did they design different from others (i.e. Takeda) that makes their short tube system work?

I'm not convinced applying a metal with a low heat transfer would suddenly allow it to beat a CAI. Unless I'm totally missing a heat shield that's been integrated to the design somewhere.

Another design question, I'd have to compare the two designs since I'm unfamiliar with the inner workings of both.

Anybody wanna hook up an air flow sensor just beyond the filters? :p

And again, see my above comments about having a 'directional' aspect to the design.

:iagree: Mothra will really be a one in a million car I guess.

One of the design advantages of the Stillen setup is supposedly the way it smooths out the airflow. Short intakes, again from what I've read, have too much turbulence around the MAF since the intake opening is much closer to the MAF. Again, this is what I've read put the flame gun away. :tiphat:

I own one and im not afraid to use it! :rofl2:
http://www.foundshit.com/images/flame-gun-ad.jpg

Y'all are welcome to come to Import Reactor and ask Smoky himself why is he so godly during his 1hr panel. rofl

Wait until he tunes that cars next week :D

cant wait to see some one on the forums bite the bullet and dyno this intake and see what happens.

So did you run 30 miles with the Top Secret intake or did you just swap it out after you dynoed stillens?

We did two dynos on the Top Secret -- an extra one to confirm our initial findings.

Drove about an hour (mix of freeway and stop-and-go) on the Top Secret before the final dyno. It confirmed the first pull, in which we simply installed it immediately after the Stillen dyno.

Wow, good luck to anyone that wants to compete against Stillen's G3 gains....no one will believe you if you do!

It doesn't have to do with being Stillen -- people would be doing the same thing if it was Injen. It has more to do with it not being a CAI.

From a fluid dynamics standpoint, air/liquid passing through two tubes of equal diameter will experience less resistance in the shorter pipe (i.e. less of a pressure drop=more flow). The advantage of a CAI is pretty much limited to the cold air aspect alone.

As someone had alluded to, it is possible that the dyno setup may have provided sufficient airflow to keep warm air from entering the SRI (or perhaps the water temp was low enough that the thermostat was closed and the radiator didn't really heat the air).

Basically, an SRI can make more power, provided it is somehow shielded from incoming hot air. That said, I do not really see anything special about this design that makes it unique in this regard.