permanent dtc codes
 

hi guys i have a customer who has a 370z with a turbo set up (sts) and he blew his motor then we got him a complete gtm stage 1 block parts and installed it in his block since the install the car is on limp mode code 0011 and 0012 which is regarding the advanced cam timing bank 1 and 2 i think anyway we changed every single part that is related for this problem starting with pcv to sensors to making sure cam timing was right to flushing the engines just encase dirty oil might be there , Finally i got a new code reader and it says i have the same codes but not only pending or cleared but permanent , I googled around and found out permanent codes are impossible to clear unlessand the ecu is stuck with them unless a car does a complete drive cycle procedure is this true? all help is appreciated since the car was put togather 5 months ago and till today we cant fix it although we added new parts for every single thing we thought is related to the codes mentioned above .

the following is the prodecude mentioned in another nissan forum
thank you


1. Start the engine. Allow the engine to idle until
the engine coolant temperature gauge needle
points between the C and H (normal operating
temperature).

2. Accelerate the vehicle to 55 MPH (88 km/h),
then quickly release the accelerator pedal
completely and keep it released for at least
10 seconds.

3. Quickly depress the accelerator pedal for a
moment, then drive the vehicle at a speed of
53 to 60 MPH (86 to 96 km/h) for at least 9
minutes.

4. Stop the vehicle. Leave the engine running.

5. Accelerate the vehicle to 35 MPH (55 km/h)
and maintain the speed for 20 seconds.

6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 at least 10 times.

7. Accelerate the vehicle to 55 MPH (88 km/h)
and maintain the speed for at least 3 minutes.

8. Stop the vehicle. Place the automatic trans-
mission gear selector lever in the P (Park) or
N (Neutral) position or the manual transmission
shift lever in the N position.

9. Turn the engine off.

10. Repeat steps 1 through 8 at least one more
time.


If step 1 through 7 is interrupted, repeat the
preceding step. Any safe driving mode is acceptable
between steps. Do not stop the engine
until step 7 is completed.

anyone to jump in and help will be highly appreciated specially those with experience GTM,UPREV,etc etc

thank you

Have you tried calling uprev or GTM to see if they could help ?

Actually I figured before calling international some of the big boys
Might help out when they have time , calling the shops is always a no go for me but either I call when everyone is busy or the time difference kills me

Not many big boys around here ,I wish I could help but with my built motor I didn't throw any of these codes.

Right now on this forum there are only 3 active user's I can think of that has built motor's

Sharp Coop My self and Nissan 370 .


I would try giving GTM a call first ask for Sam his is very helpful

:iagree:
Or email them
Or message them on the forum

Well ill try to do my best to contact them , I really wana fix
This car and am also a good example for ppl who are gana build their motor just encase it happens we would have a solution cuz I think sooner or later ppl with FI Will build their motor at some level

This sounds like something that requires CONSULT III -- Nissan's ECU reader/re-flasher -- to clear.

maybe but as i read in google and other forums both imports and domestics the only way to clear permanent codes is the driving cycle which is something new for me i looked up 370z driving cycle and didnt come up with anything only came up with i pasted in thread which was from a 350z forum also cadi forums and other cars do the same thing .

as i told u guys its 10 pm here now and called gtm all day but i guess its the wrong timing or their busy or maybe its my bad luck

This may help: Taking A First Look At Permanent DTCs | SSGM Magazine. It appears that the procedure you gave is called a Universal Trip Drive Pattern. According to the link, there is also a "monitor drive cycle" that can be used.

I found the link above and a lot more info by Googling "permanent dtc code".

thanks alot i read that but then when i googled nissan permanent dtc codes some threads from 350z poped up so i figured trying some pattern for nissan makes more sense than the universal one but it wouldnt hurt to try , I didnt start anything yet i had hope some one who knows whts up might chime in and give us an opinion but ill try both soon

just got off the phone from mike@gtm and he will share with us after chatting abt it with sam wht might be the problem and solution , i really have my fingers crossed abt this cuz the other thing i can think of is throwing away the ecu and putting a new ecy or going proefi ecu to by pass this issue

First thing first, a code will stay if the problem still exists. Let's not get too far ahead ourselves. You stated you are throwing p0011 and p0012. Are you sure its not p0011 and p0021?

Have you checked the IVT control valve solenoids? Its possible there is some debris in it causing it to malfunction. The only thing steering me away from this idea is normally both solenoids wouldn't go bad at the same time although it is a possibility.

I'm leaning more towards the engine timing. Going to have to take off the covers to check...

Does it make sense to run the same tune running from the stock block? Just curious...

I built the engine on this car.

The Codes are P0011 and P0021

not P0012.

Now, i have done timing on this car more than 2-3 times just to prove my point that the timing has been done as per the 370z Workshop Manual from Nissan.

Now, the problem is somewhat like this. The car works like a charm after you clear the code. The engine runs smooth and has no issues. Idle is perfect and life is good. But then when it throws the code (The code does not light up the SES on the dash), the car goes into limp mode and wont go over 3.5K RPM

When I check codes with PCM Scan, it shows the codes in PENDING CODES and as usual, I clear them and the car is back to normal. I have checked all solenoids, changed every possible sensor. The car still has the same issue.
I have my doubts on the VARIABLE CAM GEARS and thats where I hit the wall.

I dont have the UPREV Software to log, but using PCM scan, i see the STFT's are way off as they are sitting at +20% at idle. Im not sure if this is the issue but as i see it, its one of the issues.

Moving over to an aftermarket is not the solution in my opinion. I will be getting a consult III tomorrow and try some resets and relearning procedures and update thread.


Omar

yeah ur right omar its 0021 my bad , regardless as u see their are pending codes and permanent codes and cleared codes, Those 2 codes in the new ecu reader i got tells me they are permanent codes so no matter how much u delete they will be there
after reading abt the issue and looking at his oil after 1000km of distance its pot black that why i suggested an engine flush 3 to 4 times just to get the idea that its dirty from the inside, cam sprockets are one of the things we checked when the problem first occurred but it wouldn't hurt to recheck , Lets do the flush, Cancel the catchcan ,Delete the code by using consult 3 and take it from there .

thanks for your feedback omar mice to see you in this forum :tiphat:

am sure the tune on this car will need tweaking and adjusting but we need to clear this issue first and take it from there

The cam gears are definitely a good possibility as well. I've actually experienced it first hand with the exact same symptoms, now that its been explained. Only it was only one of the cam gears for p0011. Replaced and works beautiful.

Are the cam angle sensors new? IIRC an owner with a stock engine suffered this issue where the car went into limp mode after several minutes and couldn't rev past 3k RPM. Resetting the ECU worked for awhile, and then the problem came back after a few miles of driving. IIRC, it was the cam angle sensor that was toast.

we will diff check cam angle sensors and cam gears again and delete the codes by consult 3 , but if the problem is still there is it a possibility that our 370z's need a complete drive cycle procedure to delete a permanent code that popped up ?:shakes head:

This is a nightmare

tell me abt it , its not my car and i am stressed more than the owner and feel sorry for him that i try to educate my self to help him out , we built engine almost 6 months ago and till this day same damn 2 codes and changed mostly everything same results so all the parts didnt need to be changed i guess we will try to put another running vq engine cam gears and cam angle sensors flush his motor 4 times maybe , delete the catchcan we installed just encase it was the issue although we know its not and try to delete the codes by consult 3

the problem is the dealership in our country will not accept american spec Z's due to it having little different/more sensors than the jap specs Z's we get here so everything is 10 times harder on us to fix , you guys always have a backup in the dealership if things go sour , over here if u dont buy from the dealership then its help your self for ever :icon14:

Usually the drive cycle is for emissions monitor readiness.

The cam or VVEL sensors might be bad. If they are oil controlled solenoids, they may be gunked up.

I seem to recall someone having this problem, and it threw codes that were seemingly unrelated to the sensors -- electronically they worked, but mechanically they failed, and had to be replaced.

Good luck!

we swapped the cam sensors solenoids not sure abt the vvl sensors , But we are on the process of swapping the cam gears from another running engine and making sure all gaps between parts are 100% accurate , so engine has to be apart for the 4th time now :shakes head: in 6 months without running right

my only concern if the these codes are still there do a permanent code has to be deleted by consult 3 and the car has to go a full driving cycle as mentioned in my post because when i Google permanent codes most cars need to do this driving cycle in order for a permanent code to go away

once you fix the issue and clear the code with a generic scan tool, it will go away.

Man, I would just buy a new ECU and bury the old one into the dirt.

I have no good input. But when we built my lower end, my shop owner read and followed the Nissan instructions: Replace the cam timing motors. (At $1600 for the pair.)

In my case: No codes whatsoever. I"d hate that this is the reason of your probs, but this is my only input.

P0011, P0021: What do each of the codes stand for?

Coop

coop , thanks for your info
bro i appreciate it , wht are the parts number for the parts u changed ?

P0011 "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1)
P0021 "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 2)

we tried using consult 3 today and deleted the codes still not luck , maf sensors are over the place so we will put new ones or clean them we will also change crank sensor this time , if no luck we will open the engine again to change the sprockets and check the cam gap

thanks

Running into the same problems, any update on this?

When my build engine was installed, I was experiencing a similar problem, I had to change the VVEL motor on the one cylinder head and my cam position sensor as well and everything worked after.