Ok I sat back long enough on this. For the last few days I have been rereading that post and yet on this forum I can't find anything about the situation. So I say this, can we get the full story on this situation? I do not know why this would be kept silant because people have been beating the **** out of stillen over this kit. You can't blame them if a injector was ****** up since they didn't manufactor it. Lets go please, I ask the owner to air this story out for the community since it is not fair for stillen to take the blame for something they have not control over.

Or hey maybe if this **** gets documented josh or kyle can take it up with the injector manufactor and provide new injectors to anyone that might be suspect. I don't know why on earth this would be kept quite when there are others out there having similar issues that could cause them more harm. Forum=help people

Who is trying to keep this a secret??

Also, I dont mean to start a panic for stillen kit owners. I'm literally just saying if you have similar problems to weiboy...I mean you would know since your car would be untunable. Im sure 99% of owners don't have to worry about this.

So, does anyone here know what the symptoms of a bad injector are?

It's not my place to say, I shouldn't have brought it up but I don't like that thread being used as ammo when their were in fact issues with his injectors. All I can tell you is that Deatchwerks confirmed that one of the injectors from weiboys kit failed the flow test. That is certainly enough to cause knock/det and much worse. Injectors can suddenly fail, its unfortunate but it happens. I just wanted people to keep that in mind when looking at that thread.

doesnt start smoothly, uneasy idling, decreased acceleration, decreased gas mileage, gas odor inside cabin


am i hitting anything?

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think there is any way to tell without an EGT probe in each manifold runner to detect the lean condition. The injector was only found to be faulty after sending them to be tested.

I'm staying out of this, I dont care. (Peace)

My main point being is I am worried for the other people that might have issues and i don't want to see miss fortune come to them because someone didn't want to tell the cause of a problem. I am a american and I am a firm believer in trial before conviction. I don't want to see stillen convicted for something that was not there fault.

@Sam by all means jump in on this to help with the situation. Like I said my main concern is for the people that might have a faulty injector because of a bad lot. I am not sticking up for anyone in this situation but if a faulty injector can be the cause of the problem or can cause further problem then I feel people should be aware of it and not just dump the blame on stillen

I will not be staying out of this

This seems to be getting a bit out of hand here, injectors can fail, lets just make that clear, it's not common but it can happen. I was not implying anyone should have known this was an issue on weiboys car. Just wanted to clarify that weiboy did have a faulty/failing injector.

Stillen uses deatchwerk 600cc injectors which are modified Densos. FWIW, deatchwerks has been around a long time doing this, lot's of 240 guys including myself ran his injectors when they first came out. GTM used to use DW injectors too if im not mistaken, but no longer do. Perhaps Sam could comment on why? Maybe they did not like the DW/Densos or had some fail? I hear the latency on these injectors can make it finicky to tune.

I was also recently told to "stay away from deatchwerks" because of this specific incident, but that was immediately followed up with a story of a bosch injector destroying a brand new race motor. What I took away from it was, sometimes injectors fail. I don't think there is any cause for alarm regarding the deatchwerk injectors that stillen uses.

You covered a lot of it. There's really multiple definitions of a "bad injector" it could cause the car to run on 5 cylinders, the exhaust will be popping, rough idle, also our cars equipped with 7 different misfire codes. There's a P0300 that covers random misfire, then there is P0301 - p0306 which is cylinder specific misfire. If Eric's car had a bad injector on a specific cylinder, a specific code would have been present.

Making the statement that the car had a bad injector and that is why the car was detonating is such a blanket statement and is inaccurate. We spent 20 hrs diagnosing this particular car and logging all the ECU parameters via Cipher and Nissan's ConsultIII Factory Diagnostic Tool. At no point was there any indication of one bad injector. If you have a bad injector on one of the banks of the engine, your correction factor will be different since one wideband on a particular bank will read richer or leaner. Eric's car did not have that symptom.

If you have a bad injector, you will have a rich or a lean code since the bad injector will spray too much or not enough fuel which will alter the AFR target. The factory ECU pays very close attention to the correction factor and the differences between bank 1 and bank 2. The minute it sees any serious variation, it will throw a code.

Another indication of knowing whether you have a problem with a particular cylinder with a bad injector is to remove and check the spark plugs. This is an old fashioned way of getting a clear idea of how your combustion chamber is operating. If you remove the spark plugs and they all have a similar brownish color, that is an indication of a nice healthy combustion. When you have a bad injector, you'll notice that particular spark plug will be extremely white from running lean, or extremely black from running excessively rich.

Now if we start talking about spray pattern, this will open up a completely different front. Keep in mind that the DW injectors are modified Denso injectors although they will never be perfect like an OEM factory unmodified injector.

As far as why Eric's car was not running properly, the information was shared with Eric and I was very tempted to really share all my logs and the things I found, but I did not want to start a shitstorm, so I left it alone.

Sam

Weiboys car had knock, the injectors were sold with the stillen kit, the new owner had them tested after running them for a bit, and running into a problem of his own. It was then determined that the injector failed the flow test. Is it really hard to believe that the injector was faulty or failing and causing at least SOME of his issues?

You did say that you examined the car for 20 hours and were unable to fix his issues, so clearly tuning alone was not the problem, correct?

The 20 hours we spent on the car was for us to make sure that the vehicle did not have any mechanical issues as Eric was told by Stillen that his car was faulty in some way. We spent the time so we wouldn't put Eric in another bad situation since he had already bought a supercharger kit and was about to buy another one. We wanted to make sure that he would have a perfect running car at the end of the day.

I know you are a proud owner of a Stillen Supercharger and I'm happy for you. However, you are right, it wasn't simply a tuning problem. It was a combination of a design issue as well as a tuning issue. I think we should stop here, because I think I've said more than I should have. By continuing this conversation, it's only going to get ugly. I think there's a lot of information on both kits and anybody can do the research and come to their own conclusion.

Sam

I am sorry you don't agree with the conclusion I drew about the faulty injector being related to weiboys issues, but I still don't think it far fetched and if people are going to use that thread you posted as anti-stillen ammo, they should have all the facts. I am sure you did lots of testing, but that doesn't mean you can rule it out 100% and it would sure be a huge coincidence if the injector had nothing to do with it.

I would actually love to hear what you have to say about the kit, and don't see why anything would "get ugly". Despite what you might think (basing it off your bolded comment) I am not some sort of blind stillen zealot. If there is some design flaw in the kit that was causing detonation why should it not be discussed openly? I have my own theories of possible issues regarding IAT's due to the placement of the IC, but I don't know for sure.

I wasn't bashing you, I meant that I'm really happy that you're happy with your kit.

It is not really my place to come in here and tear apart another company's product.

PM'd

Class act:tup:

One bad injector does not mean everyone that has a Stillen kit has a bad one no reason to press the panic button.Im not sure why your choosing to put everybody's issues with the Stillen kit into a injector that went bad on my set up.Stillen is not to blaim at all ,I know what happened when my self and two of my friends pulled the engine. How the top of one piston in one cylinder only melted no other signs of detention in the others
detention period I can go on and on.

I am not here to start a fight with you SAM or anybody else.This thread was started because a person wanted to get info about the Stillen kit.The thread then went left field with GTM Stillen Comparison thread attacks in the thread ,and tags on the thread.

Since you decided to chime I would like to ask you this about Erics car. In your thread that you maid you mentioned that you could not get a ccurate air fuel at the tail pipe why check there in the first place? Also when you put the bung in the correct location and saw AFR of high 13's did you try and tune the car? to confirm 100 percent that the kit had design flaws.

Now I know what some of the flaws are with this kit if your trying to make a decent amount of power. But at Eric's power level I really dont see a reason why it wouldnt work with a good tune. Witch i know your more than capable of your one of the best tuners in the country.

I wonder if Sams nose grows everytime he tells a fib? It was a bad injector period I've seen I myself.

let me know if i have summarize this accurately enough...

from reading all the post, it seems that

the original owner of the stillen SC kit was not happy and decided to move on to GTM...

the car was brought to sam for inspection to assure there are no issues with the engine.. spent 20 hrs on it... as a result, sam opined that the tune was not ideal, which resulted to the numbers and issues the car is producing with the stillen kit... well ofcourse he also has opinions on the design of the kit as well...

the kit was uninstalled, shipped to a buyer, and installed by the new buyer/owner along with a whole mess of new/cool/smart enhancement to the kit... he then was having problems with one of the injectors and sent to the manufacturer for inspection (obviously stillen's supplier)... that injector turned out to be faulty... somebody then mentioned that the issue with stillen's kit and its tune from one of the cars that use to have it, is only because of that single faulty injector that came with the kit...

...sam then indicates that there weren't any specific misfire codes that the ECU produced related to a faulty injector and that the sparkplugs looks normal...

he is now being called a liar...

my thoughts:
-is sam really happy for the stillen kit owners and did he really spent that much time assessing that kit he replaced? :stirthepot:
-i wonder if sam did try tuning the stillen kit and turned up more power than his?
-wasn't there other cars having the same issues with the tune as the original owner of the car with the kit?
-Did any of those other cars have issues with the tune showing misfire codes, messed up sparkplugs, and what not?
-how many times did stillen redo the tune? version 7 for CARB cert?
-could the injector been damaged through all the handling it went through?
-am having fun derailing this thread even more and is somebody going to care?
-is stillen still on the forum discussing their SC kit?
-what happened to greddy turbo kits?
-why would someone who has GTM product bash on the guy who designed his turbo kit? isn't that like calling ur sibling an SOB?
-why is there so much west coast east coast rivalry in the forum... not necesarily accurate but yeah...

:wtf2: sorry too much coffee in the morning... and was bored..

:roflpuke2::roflpuke2::roflpuke2:

yes
maybe
maybe
no clue
lots
maybe
we care a lot
not that I have seen
greddy?
he wants slow response time from sam
Cuz Mid-A Kicks A$$
Coffee Good

Do we have to discuss about GTM vs Stillen SC in every freaking forced induction thread??

cant we just move on and forget the past? stillen sold a bad injector.. they had a lesson and they learned from it..

I dont even know why you people are bashing stillen's SC kit while you dont "even" own that kit..

because it's the forum.....

I can understand how a bad injector could cause all kinds of problems with any kit, but i don't understand why no one caught on to it. Stillen checked the car a number of times and GTM spent several hours on it as well.

As for the op, i would just PM MrSqueez or Dal1307, as they both have Stillen kits and seem happy with them. MrSqueez's kit required some customization but it seemed to be very worthwhile as he had nice results. If it is done right you shouldnt have to worry about excess repairs, however anything could happen and that's why they say, you gotta pay to play.

I believe everybody has moved on already, why is these threads keeps on popping up discussing the same issue? I don't get it.

For the people that is speaking without experience you need to STFU, it has nothing to do with you

Because it's the FI section of the forum...

It could be worse... see my 350 z dot com

Sorry, I guess i am just thinking out loud. I could care less really, i made my decision back in January.

Back to repairs, does anyone know of any other people with FI that have had transmission problems other than Shumby and the guy from Japan?

:iagree: that's why I don't post much there anymore.

I know a guy who blew 2 transmissions on his 09 g37 when he first installed the stillen kit.

Was it the higher gears in the AT like Shumby's?

what is this thread turning into?

Interesting. When did I blame stillen? yea let me know when you find that one. Didn't intend to start a panic frenzy as I was not the one who initially brought this up. Also there are a few others that had the same problem as weiboy did and this is why I said it. I didn't tell everyone who had the stillen kit to run out and test there injectors. I was more so saying to the people that are having issues that they might want to get this checked out. If you were having issues with your car that matched the issues I had, and it turned out I found something that was messed up, wouldn't you want me to share it with you? Also if I told you I had a bad injector you wouldn't go have yours tested? Now keep in mind there are a few others that are having the same issue that weiboy did. I think you might want to reread my posts. Sorry if I pissed you off by bringing something up you wanted to keep to your self but then again I am not the one who said there was a bad injector.

You pretty much some it up except Nismo's response as well as mine was because Sam said this.

Making the statement that the car had a bad injector and that is why the car was detonating is such a blanket statement and is inaccurate. We spent 20 hrs diagnosing this particular car and logging all the ECU parameters via Cipher and Nissan's ConsultIII Factory Diagnostic Tool. At no point was there any indication of one bad injector. If you have a bad injector on one of the banks of the engine, your correction factor will be different since one wideband on a particular bank will read richer or leaner. Eric's car did not have that symptom.

This might have been the case when he tested Eric's car but was not the case in mine. If Sam wants to say making a statement that a car has a bad injetor is a blanket statement. I could then say the same about is test results that was posted. We can go back and forth all day in the end this was not the topic of this thread but it ended up that way.

No need to re-read your post my reply to you was because you took it to Stillen convicted for something that was not there fault.That with along with you dont want to see other people have the same issues because of the problem not being posted.I have a custom set up that mean risk by me and only me.Everything was going to be posted in due time once I was done with my build to late for that now lol.

Why even take it there 90 percent of the people with this kit run a genric flash on 91 octane.This is something that my set doesnt have or something I will ever do without getting checked out. I highly doubt that all those people out there with Stillen kits that had problems all have a bad injector that is so far fetch.

I am not even going to entertain the first paragraph like i said you need to got reread my post because you took what I said the wrong way.

You missed my point but ok. I don't know what you do for a living but i am a maintainer on helicopters. I have seen it a few times where bad lots of parts had come out. To where they recall a bunch of the same part during a certain manufacture period. Most of the time the way it gets found out is because people like me install the part, **** don't work right we return it and get another one and it don't work right. We do a investigation found out they had the approx same manufacture date and turns out they are bad parts for one reason or another and they get recalled. You really don't think this happens in the auto business? If that is the case then i am afraid you are mistaken. This year alone it happened two times already. Ohh also a lot of companies that make the parts for my helicopter are also making parts that you are putting on your car or have on your car already. Is it common this happens. The answer to that is no but it does from time to time. I am not saying it is going to be everyones problem that has the kit or fix the issues that the few are having but you really think it is not worth checking? Also considering you got your injectors from weiboy and others are having the same issue as him. Call it what you will. You play rush and roulette with this mod game and sucks to say you ate the bullet on this one but there are ways to reduce the chance of you getting the bullet and I fell this is one of them. I know if I had the kit and I had issues with it i would be getting it checked to make sure and ease off the mind. Or hey keep driving with a car having detonation and put a new motor in it instead of ruling out possibilities based off others experience. I personally think your so exclusive set up had zero impact on the injectors unless you did something to them.

I will agree to disagree with you we dont see eye to eye with what you said I will leave it at that.

Now as far me thinking is it worth checking I think thats up to the individual to do so.Stillen is not going to do so now I haven't seen a post from them talking about there kit in a long time.Also of course I know manufactures produce bad batches of parts. I never took it there I just dont think this is the case with all the problems people have had with the Stillen kit.

You might want to think that my case might warrant some investigation thats your opinion.Again at this point in time thats up to the individual with there own kit.I know I pushed the envelope with my set up of this kit and I am about to do so again with my built motor.

Glad to see your doing well for you self helicopter maintainer.:tiphat:There was no need to bring your personal life into this conversation.By the way I pick up cans in the street for a living:bowrofl:

I await your reply I see we will continue to bumb heads.

hahahaha! believe it or not, picking up can's are good business!

both of you guys should cut it out. no point in arguing about this stupid topic over and over again

Stfu weiboy. This is all your fault!