FI vs NA
 

i bought a 2010 Z with high hopes of getting a TT kit, but i recently got an estimate for one.....$15,000 installed and dyno-tuned...... :eek:

i have read from a 350z forum that the same tuner offered $10K for a TT kit installed on 350z, but now they are charging $15,000 for 370z.....

perhaps i should have bought a 350z.... :gtfo2:

or even s2000: a couple of years ago, inlinepro in VA offered $8000 for their stage 2 turbo kit installed and dyno-tuned....... but i had to sell my s2k.....

i figure $33K for my car plus $15K+ = about the price of 2008 BMW M3!!!!!!

so i am still debating...........

i have owned many sports cars, but nothing with a massive rwhp in the range of 450+.

so i would like some feedbacks....

I will be using my car as a daily driver, but at the same time i would like to enjoy "the power."

I will not be racing, but i would like to put "peddle to the metal" when the light turns green...... and not be intimidated by other sport cars *^^*:bowrofl:

should i stretch my budget and get a TT or would NA bolt-ons suffice?

afterall, there is a limit to my budget and no power is ever enough for anyone *^^*

i had in mind $10 for the TT installed and dyno-tuned, but if not a TT kit, then i am thinking about spending $5k on stereo upgrades and $5k on bolt-ons....

I guess this would be a topic for a separate forum, but what would be the most cost effective add-ons per rwhp?

I was thinking about CAI, HFC, grounding kit, short throw shifter, cat back exhaust, plenum spacers, oil cooler, under drive pulleys, headers, light weight flywheel with performance clutch, and ECU reflash/COBB tuning.

can someone rate these add-ons per rwhp?

supposedly they all increase power and performance per the sellers...........but i would be more interested in feedbacks from those who have actually installed them on their 370z....

Also, which ones are practical and most cost-effective.....

it seems like if i were to install all of the aforementioned add-ons, it would be possible to get about 350-370 rwhp - but how likely is this? i guess it all depends on tuning.........

I am trying to get the most "bang/rwhp for the buck."

thanks for reading and your feedbacks...:tup::driving:

Mustang with a SC kit, perhaps?;)

You might be a canidate for the supercharger addition....though while my main preferance is to stay NA....ill let others chime in on thier opinion on the subject.

I do know that TT kits may get really expensive even after the install.

If power is what you're looking for then bolt-ons are a waste of money. 40-50whp all made in the high rev's is not worth it.

$15k for installation, tune & some supporting mods sounds spot on, and you still will need to leave some money on the side for the "oh sh!t" factor which is very likely to happen when you TT an N/A car.

Are there easier routes for a faster car? Yes! Are they as sexy? Hell No!

IMO, if you got the money for it, 370Z TT > BMW M3 any day of the year

yeah, comparing 370tt to m3 is not an apples to apples comparison. I can't believe you'd take the m over the ttZ. That is just bananas.

I also bought mine with plans to TT . I didnt think it was going to cost so much.. Im starting to have second thoughts especially when there are 2002 911 turbos going for
38k .. theres a company working on a single turbo kit.. which I hope will reduce cost of FI by a few grand. That seems hopefull.. Im not much for a SC guy.. but if i can get 450whp for 6k.. ill think about it.

Get a MKIV Supra tt.. and with 30k, you can get it up to 1000hp ;)

If you want massive power but don't want to pay that much, you can go nitrous. Then it's all on you when you actually want to use that power.

Turbos are really nice, not as great as some may say, but they're worth their salt. A lot of people go head-over-heels for a turbo setup, but in my honest opinion they're only good for the 1/4 mile. Turbos aren't very predicable and when they kick, they kick extremely hard. It takes a lot of time to learn a turbo to the point that you can control it's boost through the gas peddle.

Superchargers are easier to control, but have less power-making potential for extremely high power output situations. Although, you can easily achieve the power you want with pretty much any blower. For example, a centrifugal blower can easily put a 3.7L engine over 500RWHP. I don't know how they'd do it on the VQ37, but it's just a 'for instance'.

I'm picking up a Z06 Corvette that makes 700HP at the crank (570+RWHP) on a 8 PSI blower for $32K. The motor is fully built and the car is reliable while driving just like it did out of the showroom. If you REALLY want bang-for-your-buck, TTing a new car is anything but that.

However, a TT Z34 is simply bad @ss and I'm sure you'd be happy spending the extra 5K. Save or take out a loan. I'd do it if I were you.

get the car and supercharge it. if you never had a car with more then 450rwhp how do you expect to be able to handle a tt'ed 370z pushing more then 500rwhp? You need to think about that first before you go and buy something else. My advice would be to buy the car first and get use to it because a stock 370z is still pretty fast and after some time get a super charger and you would be done and im sure you would be pretty happy.

I would suggest supercharging as a happy medium between TT and N/A.

You can still make more than enough power with a supercharger.

This is a brand new car. Give it time and the prices will go down. This car is RED HOT on the aftermarket scene. A 350 is a 8 year old model. (Came out in 2002, MY2003). I am sure if you wait the prices will come down. Also, there are only 3-4 companies making TT kits and 2 that are ready for retail now.

Bolt ons will not give you the power you desire and you could end up spend 7K and only gain 40-50whp. I would suggest waiting for the market to cool off, or go SC as someone mentioned above.

Spot on. Wait until Greddy releases their TT kit. My guess it'll be in the 10K range; however, you're probably still looking at a tune and install.

After owning a turbo IS300 I would say the BEST way to do NA to TT is to, at least, have a hand in the install. That way WHEN something lets go you'll have a good idea of what and why. You also should check out "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell; it explains all the basics and will teach the jargon.

I'm holding off on FI for a while (probably until I'm on the backside of these car payments) for lots of reasons.

1) Nobody has blown a motor or trans yet (i'll wait until at least 5 have been destroyed so I know the safety limits)
2) The people buying TT kits right now probably bought the car cash so i'll let those guys eat up the R&D cost
3) Until the market has reached the point of more kits available than wanted stuff will be expensive
4) As more is learned newer and better kits will become available, and people will switch setups. Which means CHEAP used stuff in the marketplace.

wow, didn't know the TT and SC set ups were so $$, but its true, new car so premium pricing right now.

I think I'm going to add a few hamsters to my car in the meantime...that's good for a decent boost.

This is a decent way to approach the market. However, Many of us that have purchased our TT kits are keeping them relatively safe until we build the motors. For myself I bought everything needed capable of supporting 1000rwhp as that is my end goal and I dont want to keep switch products every time I want to up the boost some more. Did I buy my car cash... no wish I had lol but i used Cash I had on hand for my TT build. I still make payments on my car lol.

Anyways, the only way prices are going to go down is if buyers begin to buy products and saturate the market with sold products then demand will drop and supply will be high... the kits will then come down in price to gain what is left of the market.

As far as newer better kits coming out... I highly doubt the newer kits will be better than what is out there. My kit is capable of over 900rwhp and I plan on taking it there. I am also planning on a full stroker build this year too! I am keeping this car unlike my previous cars... forever! I will not part out my kit and I believe the current TT owners will not either. With the amount of money we have spent we would loose our @sses off if we sell these kits used! We would rather sell the car as a package than the kit on its own.

I hope for many more TTz's but until then I will be happy to be one of the only kids on the block with one! :tup:

I imagine the $15K price includes some extras such as clutch/flywheel, possibly an exhaust. Kit's like the GTM kit have far more parts and complexity than the Greddy kit for the 350Z, so I would expect to pay more for installation as well.

A bare bones, stock boost GTM TT kit, out of the box, with internals gates and no extras at all, can be purchased and installed for about $11,500. It's all the extras that add up. Large downpipes, externals gates, boost controller, clutch, exhaust, gauges and so on. Prices on the 350Z have remained fairly stable since 2004, so I wouldn't expect much of a drop.

^^^ Very True. I have a long list of supporting mods that added up to my costs. Everything from 3" exhaust to OS Giken Triple Plate Clutch.

Just remember: Speed costs Money. How Fast can YOU Afford to GO!!!!!!

well, considering many other reasons, i think the new M3s are more practical..... plus bimmer is a bimmer, while nissan is nissan - not to downplay the value of my 370z..... fyi, this is my third Z... *^^*

I do have a 2010 black cherry sports coupe.........it feels fast.......but how fast is FAST? i guess before i get too old or before i have other financial obligations, or before i get married, i just want to have a TT car...... just a wish i guess...


i am not a fan of SCs...........




just a thought.............if i were to get a TT, then crash it......... i mean with all that extra power...........there would be more probability, right?
would it not be a waste of $15k plus? its not like i am going to use it on pleasure rides or bragging right...........it is going to be my daily driver....

i guess no one thinks about crashing their Z, but an accident is an accident - you never know.....



well, definitely i would need to save money for the "oh sh-t factor."

damn...........why does it cost too much......... i guess it all depends on wants vs needs...........for now, there is no "need" factor.......everything is about wanting more power............:driving::tup::iagree:

lol... seriously do people not understand how much tune and supplemental parts cost? Sure a shop could install a Z33 TT for less than 10k... but do you want them to?

Bullitt. I'm very leary of TTing a car that I still owe on. It goes boom and then you are really stuck. I've done it twice Turbo IS300=transmission failure=HUGE loss; Upgraded Gt3076 Mazdaspeed6=toasted x-fer/front diff/trans=never should of bought a limited production test bed for the new SHO(IMHO). As for you paying cash, I didn't mean it literally, just trying to illustrate that people modding right now probably aren't dumping all their disposable income in to a car payment. As for "better" kits, better admittedly is subjective, but people will find different ways to do things and offer newer and newer technology. As a function of evolution the prices will come down. You can't tell me that a kit that controls VVEL won't be better than one that won't. Not that that kind of thing couldn't be easily retrofitted on your kit, but you see what i'm getting at. Speed does cost money, and I appreciate you and guys like you willing to pioneer. However, nothing changes how companies arrive at their price points. It's usually something to the effect of Parts+R&D/anticipated units sold+profit+margin for error=wholesale $ I'm not willing to pay for R&D while still conducting it myself.

And yes more power means more likely to crash it's the nature of the beast.

People always seem to ask the question that OP did. I COULD have saved a little longer for an E92 M3. I COULD have saved a little longer for the Vette Grand Sport. Hell I COULD have saved for the next 2 years and bought a Z06 with lower payments than I have on my Z and been totally happy and not even think about modding it. Point being, you spend about $36K on a car, put another $4K into it for a few bolt ons and misc stuff, oil changes, auto care products, etc. At this point you want more power but realise you have spent a ton of money on a car that your not happy with. Then your like "wa wa wa I want to go FI but it costs a lot of money to DO IT RIGHT, I should have just bought a cheaper car and boosted it for less money or bought a faster, much more expensive car". If you buy a 370Z and your not happy with the power it has stock, all that means is you KNEW you weren't gonna be happy before you bought it. I mean seriously don't compare the Z to cars that are not direct competitors. Your going from 2 extremes, a much slower S2K to a much faster M3. If all you care about is power, buy a cheap 1992 Honda Civic EG hatch, K20/K24 swap, strip it down, boost it, and if your a good driver, have fun smoking cars you never thought you could for a low price and all the ricer comments you could imagine! I will enjoy my Z along with the attention it brings me, both unwanted and wanted. Key word there - enjoyment. Wether bone stock or in a full race stage of development, I will enjoy it. So don't buy it unless your 100% convinced. A car purchase is like the 2nd largest purchase you can make in your life right? The first is getting married or something like that. :tup:

The odds of crashing a TT car over a SC car are higher. The reason being is that turbos kick in later and harder than superchargers. I've driven many of both types. The supercharged cars are easier to drive. Unless you're spooling your turbos, when you have that much power, the feeling of them kicking in is like driving 30MPH and then someone going 60MPH rare-ends you. You get a big kick out of nowhere and you go off flying. You need to know the car and be ready to handle it.

Superchargers ease you into the power depending on how you get on the gas. If you slam the gas, you get all that power right away, so you are expecting it, not waiting for it.

I have a turbo car still, but I'm buying a SC one now and honestly after driving both, I prefer the SC'd car.

Very true about the Oh $H!T factor. I had an 89 S13 w/ CA18DET. It was pretty slow when I first got it and it was pretty predictable. Add in bigger turbo, engine work, drivetrain parts, suspension, and wheels/tires and WOW. I pretty much doubled my power (not quite, but close) and when that 2871 kicked in, it did exactly that. I almost rear ended someone on the Autostrada (Interstate in Italy) on my way home from tuning. Once you get the bug, it is hard to shake it though. Some of us are stronger than others in terms of resistance to chasing the feeling that turbos expose when they come to life. I know I will be boosted in my Z one day, but I have to become one with my Z before I can even attempt to go twin turbo. I drove my S13 for about a 1.5 years before I made power upgrades and I was still shocked by the results. Do what makes you happy. Just do as much as you can to mitigate any bad situations before you take the plunge. I have never driven a SC car before, so I have no point of reference. I can tell you that the few exotics that I chased on the Autostrada were surprized that they didn't leave me in the dust though, lol. Two that come to mind are a red Ferrari F360 and a black Porsche (it just had the word turbo on the side). Both driven by Italian males that lived in neighboring towns and would always give chase or egg me on to step harder on the left pedal.

Why am I getting a Z? I have wanted one since I was a kid and it will probably make my S13 jealous. She has a 1JZ now, so she my be faster.

well, i know what you are inferring........... i too agree that i must be able to enjoy..............FIRST........and i do like my Z..........no doubt about it....

except that it does not have enough room for my groceries, which i just realized TODAY........:rofl2::gtfo2: from now on, i am not using my Z for shopping. PERIOD!

at the moment, i am a single and i would like to enjoy the freedom to make my own decisions on my hobby :driving: and being able to spend how i like it *^^*

i did think about buying a M3......... i was not too concerned about the monthly payment.......but the gas, insurance, and state tax.... it came out to be about $2000 a month.....which to me is toooooooooo, way toooooooooo much for a ride....

for s2k, i really liked it ALOT, but being a convertible, the road noise was unbearable........... but the turbo is relatively cheap and powerful, of course when do and tune it right.........

as far as civic is concerned............. i too thought about it..... comparatively cheap and cheaper to mod..... but a civic is a civic........no matter how much power it has............... IMO, if you are in college or early twenties and mod a civic, it is understandable (for the lack of better word)

but, being my age, approaching mid thirties, i do not want to mod a civic as my daily driver.....I am NOT downplaying the value in civic, for i had one a couple of years ago when i was in school..... it is a great car, BUT CIVIC is a CIVIC!

in short, i guess it is a commitment.............. and the right mind and ability to balance the check book.....

it is as if "damned if i dont, damned if i do."

well, i was reading up on GTM supercharger............waiting on dyno results....

my first priority is to spend about (at max) $10k and get the most power for a daily driver, while not jeopardizing the engine longevity....


I plan to own my 2010Z for about 5 years, then hopefully a M3 or GTR..... 5 years is about 80k miles on the road...... give it or take a little....

this is just an estimate, but if i were to go with a SC, it will cost roughly $10K with a 400-500 rwhp car; but for a TT, it will cost roughly $16K with a 500rwhp car, but i would also need to rebuild the engine.......probably another $10K....

only if the TT were in 10K range INSTALLED, i would not doubt about it......:owned:

well, i am STILL debating on a SC vs a TT...........if i were to go with a TT, then I am keeping my Z forever..........:happydance::bowrofl:

roplusbee said it best "do what makes you happy"

With this level of modifications just plan it out. It only feels like a huge chuck of change when you drop it all at once. But get some supporting mods first, and piece together your system to hold the eventual power. A little bit here, a little bit there and get your car ready the way you want to.

Spend some on body, suspension or interior modifications so you feel like you're getting your money's worth in addition to pieces like clutch, flywheel and oil cooler.

In th eend you have the car you want, built the way you want it, and have been able to enjoy each day in it without being scared you're gonna wreck something you just dropped $15K into.

Honestly, your gonna lose money compared to buying an M3. $2K a month is a high estimate. I am 22 years old and I pay $295 every 2 weeks (26 times a year) for my Z and my insurance is only $172.90 a month for 9 months out of the year. Gas is variable but 2K a month is high. I am gonna get the Ford SVT Raptor 6.1 when it comes out and that would barely amount to 2k a month since I'd rarely drive it. So basically here is your plan (and let me know if I am wrong): 1) Apparently from the info you gave, you got your car on a 5 year loan? (mine is on an 80 month loan through a bank for the Border Patrol; which I am an agent; at 5.9%) So unless you put down more money than I did, you have a WAY higher car payment than I do. 2) If your are ONLY going to keep it stock looking and go FI then during the lets say $38K loan you have, your going to spend an additional $12K bringing it up to $50k. And I really doubt, since you seem like a big sports car enthusiast, that you would keep it bone stock. Not too mention one of my co workers bought a 2009 M3 at invoice so they sell for cheap. So lets say we bring the total amount to $56K, which is still a moderate estimate. 3) Once you do go FI, depending on how you drive and monitor your new toy will determine the life of your vehicle, maintenance is expensive and there is ALWAYS something that will go wrong within the first few months, minor or major. 4) Now you are going to get rid of the Z for a more expensive car. Only the car is heavily modded and your gonna have to find the right buyer. Trade ins will no longer work. A lot of people won't buy a car like that for a reasonable price. Too much to risk.

Correct me if I am wrong but based on your plan, I would have waited. The Z is not cheap, its expensive to make more power and maintain that power, and its not practical, as you stated.

If you didn't want to read all that bs up there, bottom line is simple, you are more than likely much wiser than I am so you have your own reasons for buying the Z knowing (I hope you knew) that it doesnt have much to offer in the power department unless you have plenty to offer in the money department. I knew this, in fact, all of my friends told me to take it back the day I bought it and get a 335i or EVO X GSR so I could do what I want safer and cheaper. I completely undertsand what they are getting at but I love the Z. I love how I never see them on the road. I love how when I pull up next to nicer, more expensive cars at stop lights and look around, everyone is looking at me, not the car next to me. I love the respect it gets from my friends who own cars that are faster in straights but they know that its capable if crushing them in the corners. What ever reason you bought it is yours and I really don't care, not in an A hole way, but its none of my business. So I didn't mean to seem like a jack *** in the first post or this one for the record. :tiphat:

$2000 a month is for the M3 monthly estimate....

for my Z it is about $900-$1000, depending on how much i drive.....

well, to begin with, i did not know it would cost this much ($16K) to get a TT on my car....

I only assumed that it would cost as much as a 350Z.......

to begin with, i am a 100% Z lover..... this is my third Z.....

well, what is life without enjoyment........! i might just eat ramen noodle for 2 months and get a TT........... and just tell myself this is big birthday and christmas gift for next couple of years.....:happydance:

nothing is final yet...........

with the engine reliability and for what they cost, i might consider GTM's SC kit...... if the price is right.... *^^*