Black smoke out back, engine splutter
 

Last night I get out of work and start the engine. I see a little smoke come out the engine bay. I cut the engine off and pop the hood. First place I take a look is the Rad overflow/refill tank. It was empty. Hum..... I though. That's very rare in any car. So, I go grab some water and fill her up and start her back up. All is well and I drove 25 miles home no problem no nothing. I did not get into much boost if any. I sit in the car for a good 40 sec and then cut the engine with according to the gauge is only 180 deg (raining here). I cut the engine but and got out the car. As I approached the driver side wheel, I heard a humm. I suspect it was the Exa pump for the oil return. Once again I thought, weird and took a peek at the rad overflow again. The tank was full. I thought good. I go back in and press the start button then off again to see if that would turn it off, no luck. I was tired and didn't have the energy or patience to stand in the drizzle to mess with it. So I disconnect the battery and went to bed.

I wake up and my brother tells me he tried to move the car but the car is acting funny. He said it turns over but splutters to life and blows black smoke out the back. so he cut the engine off. I go out and try to start her and she almost don't want to turn over. I have to give her a goodly amount of gas for her to turn over. The engine dies and cut off shortly after. So weird. I did have a MAF code not long ago. I have not have time to plug UpRev in to check for anything but any Ideas?

I'm totally lost as to WTH is going on. So weird! Anyhoo, off to work I go. I'll have to try and figure this out tomorrow or have her towed to get fixed.
I also just unhooked the battery in case the Exact tried to come on.

Thanks in advance
YzGyz

Ur boned

...

Sounds like you might have blown a head gasket. Missing coolant is never good unless you can find the leak.

I filled the coolant at work then check it when I got home. It was at the same level. I'll have to go snoop around everywhere. Like I said, she drove home fine. Just after that. It's so weird. Me thinks the ecu acting funny with a bad maf sensor. No codes though.

YzGyz

Pop the coolant cap on the motor and see if you have any left in the motor

Edit: not ruling out some wierd electrical issue but coolant disappearing and a compltely empty reservoir are never good things. If the hg is really bad it sucks coolant into the motor, but if it is only slightly blown it will push gas into the overflow bottle and the level will look crazy. Have you checked your oil level yet?

I'll see when I get home in the morning. I'll look and post before I go to bed. Just wierd that my Exa pump is also staying on after I shut the car down. It's connected to the fuse box and battery. So weird but this is also why I think it's a afr thing with the ecu. Just stabbing in the dark here. All that is over my car fixing knowledge.

YzGyz

Ok thats definitly weird, confirmed multiple problems exist check your wrining where the pump is hooked up to see if it is rubbing or shorted on something. If not time to take it to a shop.

when you fix this problem, please let me know what it was...it sounds very Weird

Just got out the shower and went out to do a quick oil and coolant check. Both are good. It's still green in the radiator and the oil is smack in the middle of the two dots.

My new theory is that my battery was low from the Exa pump running for hours. I was giving it a good bit of gas when I was cranking her. When she finally turned, she rolled over rich and poff, black smoke.

As for the pump, that can simply be a separate thing but coincidentally happen at the same time. Maybe just a bad wire (hard fit when wiggling the cover over the big fuse box.)

I was thinking a minor head lift could be possible. However, I doubt it as I'm on spring pressure at like 7.5 lbs. I plan to drain the oil and see if it comes out milky to confirm that the coolant and oil are not mixing.

Off to dream land I go. Guys /gals, keep brainstormin for ideas while I'm snoozing.

YzGyz

The empty coolant tank worries me. It may just be a low battery but you will have to let it warm up to see if you are losing coolant (unless you've blown a big hole in the head gasket).

First thing I'd check is the battery. Charge/replace if needed.
Then I'd see if any DTCs have been thrown. If any are present, write 'em down and then clear.
If the car will run at this point (probably going to run rough for a while if the battery was dead), top off the overflow tank, let it warm up to normal operating temp, shut down and wait for engine to cool. Check tank. If you lost much coolant from the tank, it's may be a head gasket. :(

I agree with the low battery issue. The puff of black smoke is from the injectors firing during the starter slowly cranking the engine. When it starts you have all that unburnt fuel pushing through your exhaust. Good luck!

The radiator? Again are you just checking the overflow bottle or the metal pressure cap on the engine? If you run the bottle dry and suck air into the motor it could be airlocked at the motor? If you pull the pressure cap it should be full all the way to the top. And yeah definitley check the scavenge pump wiring if it is on when the motor isnt its running dry which is very not good for a gear pump.

I doubt it as I'm on spring pressure at like 7.5 lbs. ? Turbo? Check the fuel pump. My car was doing the same thing when I had my SC, fuel pump feed line was cracked, I have a youtube vid of it, look upMAC37! channel,"Spuutering"

Sorry for the late reply.

Yes, the Rad itself is full of green juice not the res.

I fiddle with her for about 1hr before I had to go and did not come home till 2am.

2 ,minutes into trouble shooting (had to get all the covets off the fuse,wire) I found a rusted relay in the wire loom to the Exa pump. Next I did an oil change to check if coolant mixed. The oil was dark but visual great.sill smooth, not thick although black. I'm not worried about the black as color is not the best means to measure oil life, plus there will always be 1qt old oil in the cooler itself. No milk so I'm assuming it's good HG. I'm heading out to try to find the relay now.

Will post pic later and report in
YzGyz

I think it will buff out ok...
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...psjgrxuahd.jpg

6qt of Mobile 1 with about 1600 miles on it and 2 1/4mi drag days.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...psroc61u2e.jpg

So UPSET right now. GRR!!!!!! I went to 4 Big Box auto stores and nothing. I called Grainger and went to fry's still nothing!! WTF!!! Stupid 5 pin 20a/30a relay!!

The only relay I found so far in my quick search is for a lot of 10 of them.. WTF.. Anyone know where I can order or get one of these in Houston?? Gezz!!

YzGyz

Edit: I found some online. took some research to find but Amazon Primed that hoe!!

That relay should not look like that. Have you checked all the other wiring?

That relay look brutal. I don't understand how that would be possible..it's almost as if it was under water for a long time.

Yeah, it does look bad. The relay itself was turned upside down then I was trouble shooting and found the problem. The cap had a little bit of moisture in it and probably filled up at one time. I'm thinking that the engine bay warming and cooling in could of formed condensation in it and just pooled over time. The high humidity from all these stormed and rain don't help it either. The other thing is that it could have been my fault from when I washed my engine bay with a hose and De-greaser. However, I doubt it as the wires are tucked in the fuse area which is separated from the engine area. It could be my fault.

Anyhoo, waiting for the relay before I trouble shoot some more and try to find the disappearing coolant problem.

YzGyz

1987 1992 Jeep Rear Wiper Fog Lamp Headlight Relay AR502 with Bracket | eBay

CEC Industries, LTD. Your Global Partner In Lighting Solutions

Searching for:
"2 Speed Changeover Relay with Bracket" and/or "AR502"
But as long as the voltage is 12 and the Amp is at least 30 you should be fine with any similar part.

This should work too.
HELLA H41388461

Since the relay didn't seem to hold up in your application, I wouldn't use it as a replacement unless you can somehow water-proof it.

As per 2011 Nismo#91, the coil needs to be 12 VDC and the contacts rated for 30 A (when two figures are given, the first is usually the "make" rating and the second is the "break" rating - when in doubt, go with the higher figure).
If there is no connection to 87a, you can use a NO SPST (Normally Open, Single-Pole Single-Throw).

Thanks guys, I'm a electrical noob when it comes to anything other than audio systems. I can plug and hook that up with little problems. "If there is no connection to 87a, you can use a NO SPST (Normally Open, Single-Pole Single-Throw)" is beyond me. I went and ordered what the old one said on it. A 20a/30a 5 pin (I counted the pins in the back) and bought one with the same 20a/30a and similar diagram on it. I found plenty of 30a relays and 40a relays. I just didn't find and 20a/30a relays. Hopefully it comes fast so I can trouble shoot and get my car back on the road.

Next on the list is to check to make sure all coolant clamps are secure correctly, then mark the overflow/res with a piece of tape and coolant level, start the car and let her run for a while and heat/build pressure, look around for signs of leak/seepage (w/o burning myself), and fix what is needed or button her up and keep an eye on the coolant and temp.

YzGyz

As long as it is rated 30 A or greater, you will be OK. Larger ampacity relays usually pull more power for the coil but shouldn't be a big deal (unless you move up to really big relay).

It's weird how I read the description one pin out is 20A and the other was 30A. But anyway as a precaution you should wrap up any openings with good electrical tape.

If you have it upside down, drill a hole in the plastic cover to let water drain out of it if any water finds it's way in.

Also, the coughing and sputtering could be because of a bad MAF sensor. You could try to unplug them and it would force the car to run in open loop, where it doesn't use the MAF sensors. If your idle smooths out with them unplugged, then one of them is bad. I doubt it if they'd both go bad at the same time.

It's possible your cooling system just had some air still in it, and was able to empty the overflow on cool down after expelling the air?

I've only seen a blown HG on a VQ once and it did not mix water with oil. What it would do was allow combustion pressure into the cooling system during full throttle, which would cause the coolant reservoir to overflow (and mist coolant on the windshield through the vented hood), and then after cool down it would draw the reservoir empty.

I'm fairly sure it's not an air pocket as I installed the CSF like 4k miles or so before I boosted her or something like that. I can't imagine the car taking that many miles to work out an air pocket. Then again, it could happen.

I did not notice any mist of air or anything other than the initial start up with the low fluid. After topping it off, it was all clear. I was hawking the water temp dots and the oil temp the whole drive home. The water dots were 1 or 2 dots less than 1/2 way and the oil temp stayed around 180 deg on the rainy cool TX morning.

I hope it's not a pin hole leak as those can be hard to find. I won't know till I start her up and and let the engine get hot, build pressure and I carefully snoop around. This wont happen until I get that darn 20/30 amp relay though. Come on mail man!!

YzGyz

For testing purposes, just about any relay with a 12 VDC coil and at least one NO SPST* contact rated for 30 A will work.


*DPDT or a TPDT will work, you just will have some terminals that are not connected. See http://www.vertex-qis.co.uk/Manuals/..._explained.pdf for more info.

Update, Relay replaced. The pump turn off with the car like it's suppose to again. I didn't notice and excess smoke out the back. I suspect it was from working the pedal when the battery was low, trying to turn her over. I also looked around and found a leak in the coolant system. The bottom OEM clamp on the radiator has weakened and leaks when the system come to temp. I had to run out and buy a worm screw type and clamp her down. It stopped the leak. I will have to do another visual inspection tomorrow in the day light to make sure everything else is ok.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...pscurcd7ki.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...psnoxpxzf3.jpg

I also did not know how hot the oil lines got. Sure, I know that they are as hot at the engine running temp but man. I see some smoke coming off them. I moved the oil like myself and the smoke defiantly comes from the oil lines.

YzGyz

Black smoke out back, engine splutter
 

Don't leave a worm drive clamp on that silicon hose it'll tear it up. Get a t-bolt clamp

Yeah, I'm not a fan of worm screws myself. I just bought 2 43mm t bolts. I will be replacing the Olds ones when I get the new ones in.

YzGyz

To be honest I'm shocked it leaked on that bottom connection. That one is a bastard to get on.

I just checked it again, It still has a small leak. like wtf!!! The worm screw clamp is on there good!. I'll have to drain the thing, pull the tube and check it when I replace that clamp. For now, I'll just top her off as I need. I don't have time to do mess with it and it's minimal. Like wth..

YzGyz

Check the gasket at the thermostat. If it leaked there it would likely run down the hose and make it look like its leaking from the bottom.

I checked the thing at the top a few times. It's dry. I just ran her for 20 minutes in the driveway again because it pissed me off. This time, it was dry. WTF!! Anyhoo, it wasn't dripping much before so I'll continue to watch it till I drain, inspect and reinstall that hose.

God I want me a darn car lift.. I hate having to drive on wood, jack one end then the other. Then re-jack the from the other end and once again the last end to get her all the way up.

YzGyz