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-   -   Titan supercharger (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/10764-titan-supercharger.html)

Kyle@STILLEN 11-04-2009 01:57 PM

You are correct bullitt and please allow me to elaborate...

When I say that turbo kits aren't as reliable I am not referring to the engine reliability or tune. I am referring to the issues that arise due to the heat such as cracked turbo's due to rapid changes in temperature (basically stopping after a hard run) and oil leaks and stuff like that. Those are all user generated reliability issues most of the time though.

The reliability of the engine is 100% up to the tune(r.)

JoeD 11-04-2009 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN (Post 266410)
You are correct bullitt and please allow me to elaborate...

When I say that turbo kits aren't as reliable I am not referring to the engine reliability or tune. I am referring to the issues that arise due to the heat such as cracked turbo's due to rapid changes in temperature (basically stopping after a hard run) and oil leaks and stuff like that. Those are all user generated reliability issues most of the time though.

The reliability of the engine is 100% up to the tune(r.)

Exactly. Engine-reliability is completely dependent on the tune and how far you chose to push the envelope, but reliability in this context has nothing to do with weather or not you're going to blow your engine. Where a supercharger has a turbo-kit beat hands down is overall worry-free operation, and this has almost nothing to do with power-level.

JoeD 11-04-2009 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897 (Post 266366)
Turbo lag is now non existent with full boost hitting in most cars and kits at below 3500 rpm where as a SC will hit full boost at peak rpm.

Actually, it's only the centrifugal-style superchargers which are designed to make full boost (or close to) near redline. Positive-displacement superchargers are there very soon after WOT, regardless of engine-RPM.

However, you can't compare turbo-lag to a centrifugal supercharger's "lag" citing it only makes full-boost at or close to redline. Technically, lag is the wrong word in this context which is why I put it in quotes, as boost-response is almost instant (obviously...because it's driven off a belt). Regardless of boost-level, you still have positive manifold-pressure from the second you tip into the throttle, even with a centrifugal SC. This is certainly not the case with turbo(s).

Ken in AZ 11-04-2009 02:48 PM

Superchargers have a much higer failure rate than turbochargers due to the inherent design of adding more moving parts - ie belts, pullies, brackets, idlers, tentioners. Also the supercharger itself has it's own self enclosed bearings and gears that introduce new failure points as well. Failure of the supercharger "normally" doesn't meant the engine goes boom.

Turbochargers have 1 added moving part - the turbine and compressor blades that share a common shaft - technically if you have the ceramic ball bearing option you can include that but it has been proven to be nearly bulletproof even when you include oil starvation. If you include the Wastegate and blowoff valve then techically that is 4 moving parts added to the engine. "Normally" a failure with the turbocharger makes the engine go boom.

Technically Kyle - superchargers are more prone to failure unless they are engineered correctly and installed with prowess. Mercedes and Ford have it down pat. Jackson Racing did well with the honda stuff but there were induced failures that did occure due to engineering mistakes. ATI - I've seen bracket problems, same with Vortech, do you need a cogged belt or will a serpentine do just fine type of problems with superchargers. I have even seen bearing failures on pto shafts for your superchager on the titan - which is not the engineer's fault, but it does happen.

Most Failures with a turbo are blown boots on the intake piping which causes relatively no harm. If it is tune related or wastegate failure - then you have a blown up engine. Rare failures are compressor blade breaking being ingested by the engine.

Most failures with a supercharger are belt noise, belt breaks, broken pullies, bearing noise, rare occasion is FOD (foreign object damage) to the pistons and valves, Leaking air to water intercooler causing excessive smoke and or hydrolock on startup.

I think Kyles post refering to reliability is to the point that superchargers "normally" don't blow an engine when they fail and that turbochargers do. You can't get boost greed on a supercharger like you can on a turbo. It is very easy to pop an engine on a turbo car UNLESS you are very responsible with that boost controller - lol

kannibul 11-04-2009 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrycs (Post 264873)
A blown V8 will have more torque than a blown V6 would at comparable manifold pressure. It all comes down to how often you beat on it. For the AT, trans cooler and shift kit are a must. The next step up is clutch packs.

The great question is "where"?

I mean, if you wanted to do said upgrade, who's a supplier?

Pointman 11-04-2009 04:10 PM

KYLE, whenever you get ready for test and evaluations of your Super Charger Kit, please feel free to send one to my home address.

Thanks in advance!

D.


:tup:

Togo 11-04-2009 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD (Post 266435)
Exactly. Engine-reliability is completely dependent on the tune and how far you chose to push the envelope, but reliability in this context has nothing to do with weather or not you're going to blow your engine. Where a supercharger has a turbo-kit beat hands down is overall worry-free operation, and this has almost nothing to do with power-level.

It's whether, not weather. :tiphat:

Thats all i have to say. :happydance:

JoeD 11-04-2009 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Togo (Post 266732)
It's whether, not weather. :tiphat:

Thats all i have to say. :happydance:

Cool. :tup:

BTW...it's that's, not thats. :tiphat:

Togo 11-04-2009 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD (Post 266830)
Cool. :tup:

BTW...it's that's, not thats. :tiphat:

DAMN!

Touché :tiphat:

terrycs 11-04-2009 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul (Post 266540)
The great question is "where"?

I mean, if you wanted to do said upgrade, who's a supplier?

Transgo makes a shift kit and so does Stillen. I have the Transgo shift kit installed in my car and my valve body was modified by GTM.

terrycs 11-04-2009 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN (Post 266324)
6) A lot of the aftermarket turbo kits that I have seen, remove the crash beam and replace it with an intercooler. This crash beam in the front of the car houses the airbag sensors.

The impact sensor is not mounted to the impact beam which itself is only rated for about 5MPH.

C&P from FSM:

DTC B1035 [COMM FAIL] CRASH ZONE SENSOR
Main “G” sensor that generates signal voltage, when it detects deceleration beyond the specified level caused by vehicle frontal collision.

OPERATION
When ACU defines both signal voltage of the “G” sensor and the safing sensor to be that of collision which exceeds specified level, the driving circuit switches on and feed the electric ignitor of both driver and passenger air bags and pre-tensioner seat belt.

STRUCTURE
Integrated type of the G sensor element for frontal collision with output terminals for signal voltage.

INSTALLATION
Crash zone sensor is installed on the radiator core support assembly with fixed nuts.

1slow370 11-09-2009 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken in AZ (Post 266510)
Superchargers have a much higer failure rate than turbochargers due to the inherent design of adding more moving parts - ie belts, pullies, brackets, idlers, tentioners. Also the supercharger itself has it's own self enclosed bearings and gears that introduce new failure points as well. Failure of the supercharger "normally" doesn't meant the engine goes boom.

Turbochargers have 1 added moving part - the turbine and compressor blades that share a common shaft - technically if you have the ceramic ball bearing option you can include that but it has been proven to be nearly bulletproof even when you include oil starvation. If you include the Wastegate and blowoff valve then techically that is 4 moving parts added to the engine. "Normally" a failure with the turbocharger makes the engine go boom.

Technically Kyle - superchargers are more prone to failure unless they are engineered correctly and installed with prowess. Mercedes and Ford have it down pat. Jackson Racing did well with the honda stuff but there were induced failures that did occure due to engineering mistakes. ATI - I've seen bracket problems, same with Vortech, do you need a cogged belt or will a serpentine do just fine type of problems with superchargers. I have even seen bearing failures on pto shafts for your superchager on the titan - which is not the engineer's fault, but it does happen.

Most Failures with a turbo are blown boots on the intake piping which causes relatively no harm. If it is tune related or wastegate failure - then you have a blown up engine. Rare failures are compressor blade breaking being ingested by the engine.

Most failures with a supercharger are belt noise, belt breaks, broken pullies, bearing noise, rare occasion is FOD (foreign object damage) to the pistons and valves, Leaking air to water intercooler causing excessive smoke and or hydrolock on startup.

I think Kyles post refering to reliability is to the point that superchargers "normally" don't blow an engine when they fail and that turbochargers do. You can't get boost greed on a supercharger like you can on a turbo. It is very easy to pop an engine on a turbo car UNLESS you are very responsible with that boost controller - lol

Or the fact the the EXTREMELY high heat inherent in turbocharger systems cooks the bearings and cause metal fatigue and burn-off and turbocharger units typically are considered needing replacement between 50 and 100,000 miles on STOCK turbocharged cars and much sooner as soon as the rpm of the turbocharger unit is operated out of the manufacturers suggested range. They also have oil seal problems over time as the seals age from the heat and typically burn more oil and smoke more than supercharged cars. Whenever you deal with modification though there are always going to be people that do things incorectly and abuse the car and the parts for both superchargers and turbochargers and failures will happen.


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