Nissan 370Z Forum

Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Forced Induction (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/)
-   -   Possible fueling issues? (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/102473-possible-fueling-issues.html)

DIGItonium 06-17-2015 11:41 PM

@Ill I already have the cans installed, and it seems to work pretty well. I rigged up a bracket and installed on the driver side of the coolant reservoir. I'll further reinforce it with an L bracket later.
http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1434634429

Everything has been great so far other than this nightmare of an issue. I'm just tired. After getting the broken bolt out I need to put the car aside to find time and funds to sod my yard again. Man it never ends lol.

Rusty 06-18-2015 01:04 AM

Don't feel bad. I took my motorhome in for state inspection. I got hit with a $4,800.00 bill. :eek::eek: Both front axle inner wheel seals are bad. The bushings on the sway bars need replace. And on the motor. The clutch fan needs replaced. That alone is half the bill. :shakes head: Thankfully I don't need tires. That would be around $5,000 for 6 of them. Plus I need it back for the weekend of the 26th. I got to grab all of the overtime I can now.

phunk 06-18-2015 01:45 PM

Next time you mess with it, I would like to see a video of the problem you are trying to resolve - it might help to see it.

DIGItonium 06-18-2015 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk (Post 3232852)
Next time you mess with it, I would like to see a video of the problem you are trying to resolve - it might help to see it.

I'm trying to find someone to help me get the broken bolt removed, and then assess whether I can still use the lower manifold. Regardless, I'm going to have to remove the intake manifold for further inspection and make room to drill out the broken bolt.

Here's food for thought. I talked to Juan@Fontana about the gasket adapters looking different, and it's because the old part number was 14032-JK20A, and the new one is 14032-JK21A. I don't mind that, but the gaskets aren't exactly alike! Not only did the color change from orange to grey, the gaskets look and feel a bit different (feels slightly thinner?). The contacting edge of the new gasket tapers to a sharp edge, and the original looked rounder and wider. I noticed the same with the TB gaskets.

Below is a cropped image. The left is my intake manifold and new gasket, and the right is from another member.
http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1434657165

phunk 06-18-2015 03:14 PM

Did the bolt break off flush or is anything sticking out? Since the bolt broke rather than tearing out the threads, its possible that the threads are totally fine and it will come out without too much trouble. The front-most bolt is also a thru-bolt (the hole passes through the entire lower manifold flange), making it easier to work with.

DIGItonium 06-18-2015 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk (Post 3232964)
Did the bolt break off flush or is anything sticking out? Since the bolt broke rather than tearing out the threads, its possible that the threads are totally fine and it will come out without too much trouble. The front-most bolt is also a thru-bolt (the hole passes through the entire lower manifold flange), making it easier to work with.

It's a clean break. When it broke, I barely got to turn it by 15 degrees since I was being real careful. Total shaft length of the broken bolt is 56mm, so that's where it ended. It's not the front most bolt (one with exposed post). It's the next one down on the passenger side.
http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1434670511

phunk 06-18-2015 06:46 PM

Ah ya I cant tell if that would leave anything sticking out of the LIM to grab onto or not. Probably not enough to matter if anything at all.

DIGItonium 06-18-2015 07:57 PM

@phunk. No problem. The others look "dry" in the same area. Glad I was able to remove the rest of the bolts. I'm tossing them out for new ones. For some reason I'm not confident about the new gasket, and I already tossed the old ones. I can try to seal the bottom and add some water to see if it leaks, but if it's hairline there's no telling.

jwick 06-18-2015 08:10 PM

FWIW I have the grey/black gasket and no upper to lower intake manifold sealing issues.

DIGItonium 06-19-2015 07:20 PM

Below is a short video I made today. Please note that ALL 6 BOLTS were REMOVED. It is not a completely accurate test, but it goes to show you that even with the bolts in place engine would bog if I spray TB cleaner underneath the passenger side of the intake manifold. This video pretty much recreates that response, and it also shows how well the engine runs before fully warming up and idle hunting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86MbTwPUdOc

DIGItonium 06-20-2015 06:02 PM

Alright, I'm going to see if you guys can chime in here, which includes pictures of the new gaskets. I took several high resolution pictures, which you can download the ZIP here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1_...ew?usp=sharing

After removing upper intake manifold the broken bolt was exposed by about 1/4", and I barely used any force removing it. Phew! So why is that the case? There are no stripped threads, so I went ahead and cleaned the screw holes. I even manually hand tightened the bolt on its own and confirm it is not free spinning. I cannot find any cracks, and I even tried shining a flashlight through it.

After taking some pictures, I setup a light leak test by placing the manifold with gasket on a counter top. Then I added a 10 lb weight and shined a flashlight on one side. I even tried pressing down on it, but there's still a bit of light towards the center, but not the runners on each end. This seems indicative of the leak I've been dealing with.
http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1434841208

So what's at fault? The new gasket (14032-JK21A) versus the old (14032-JK20A)? Signs of warping towards the center?

phunk 06-20-2015 06:47 PM

I cant believe it runs that great without any bolts in the intake manifold at all. Any other car would have the RPMs go way up from no vacuum. That means its idling entirely off VVEL, where I thought it switched to the throttle bodies for idle. Now I am starting to wonder what the hell the throttle bodies are even for on this car.

As for the idle hunting, I was expecting worse than that. I honestly dont know if I would even be chasing after that... looks like 25rpm of movement, thats like nothing.

The light you see under the manifold... hard to say without knowing how flat the table even if. But the bolts will pull it down and conform for a decent amount of warp, if the manifold even is warped.

I am not sure why the bolt broke on you... but otherwise im starting to think things are looking pretty normal in here. I would just put the manifold bolts back in and enjoy the car. Maybe put it on the dyno to make sure all its power is still there and the motor is healthy.

DIGItonium 06-20-2015 07:21 PM

Thanks, Charles. It has been an interesting adventure. The engine seems to be running great and throttle tip in feels much better. Looking back I've been dealing with performance issues from possible leaks, fouled up plugs, misfire,etc., since 2013. It is difficult to let go of this car. Your products are on my wishlist when I do pursue a build one day. I wish it would come sooner haha.

Lastly, install it dry or apply silicone grease?

phunk 06-20-2015 09:44 PM

I always put it on dry, but I dont see any harm in silicone grease and it might help the gasket seat a little better.

DIGItonium 08-15-2015 10:33 AM

Update 8/15/2015
 
I finally got around to ordering a brand new upper intake manifold, gaskets, and bolts. Found out Nissan changed the installation method by using shorter bolts and eliminating the metal spacer in each socket. It turns out over time the old (longer) bolts would stretch. I can confirm with the picture below:
http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1439652454

Here are the shorter bolts Nissan is now using for the new intake manifolds:
http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1439652454

So even with all new parts installed, no dice. Idle still surges after fully warming up, and I can still confirm the leak from spraying MAF cleaner underneath the intake manifold. My torque wrench is not very accurate, so even at 5 lbs I can barely get it to click. That's how I snapped the old bolt. I carefully hand tighten with the specific pattern, then slowly tighten each bolt. I even took it back out and tried to fully tighten one by one. No dice.

No shops were available to help me out, so hopefully one of my friends is coming by with a better torque wrench. After that I'm giving up. Engine runs great, but this idle surging with the intake manifold is PITA.

[EDIT] Took it to a friend's shop to check the bolts and install the oil cooler fan. He said the surge is so minor I shouldn't worry too much. This is in line what what Charles said as well. So I'll just move on and hopefully get it dyno tuned one day.

DIGItonium 11-02-2015 10:08 AM

Just a status of what's going on with my car and see what you guys think. It's probably a tuning issue at the moment.

My car still idle hunts, but only after it warms up. There are times it'll rise to 1.2k RPM for a few seconds, and then back down. The past week it'll hang around 1.2-1.5k RPM indefinitely and throws a high idle code after driving across down. If I quickly shutoff and restart it doesn't idle past 1k anymore afterward. Then I found out both of the 10mm silicone hoses from the PCV (to oil catch cans) had oil residue, so I cleaned and tightened it. I'll try to find thicker hoses that's less susceptible to collapsing under PCV vacuum later. It's doing much better now, but still idle hunts after a warm start.

Other than that it holds 9 PSI boost very well, doesn't lag like it used to, and still no fuel smell. I found a pump across town with 93 octane. It was already running smooth to begin with no hot start issues. It's much more smooth now. Tires are starting to slip more often in 1st :)

So my next option is the tune, but I rather save up to make the switch to EcuTek and get it dyno tuned. However, I need to switch to EBC first.

[EDIT] Found out the cheap Godspeed catch cans were responsible for at least 95% of all vacuum leaks. I sealed up the cans the best I could with dramatic results. There's still some idle hunting, but nowhere near as bad as before. There were times it could maintain a steady idle. There's still a hissing sound in one of the cans after adding RTV and epoxy to seal up everything I could. These things are terrible and don't hold up well to PCV pressure. Time to cough up more cash for something better.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2