Fused Ceramic 6 Puck to flywheel?
 

Was out driving today and went to do a hard launch and instead of the tires letting go the clutch took all the slippage and welded itself to the flywheel. Atleast thats the only thing that makes sense. The clutch will not disengage no matter what I try. I was under the impression that a Ceramic 6 puck clutch could take the launching abuse?

Has anyone ever welded their clutch to the flywheel? Any way to get it unstuck? I have tried locking up the tires from ~7000rpm with no luck. I am really hoping I do not have to pull the trans but if I do I do I guess.

Tried doing some google searches on it and it seems like a pretty rare occurrence to melt a ceramic to the flywheel.

So you Turbo'd guys be careful, I just assumed id slip the clutch but she is stuck good! I read that sometimes if you jack up the rear tires and throw it into a high gear and drop the jack it can be enough of a jolt to free the clutch. Going to go out to a parking lot tomorrow and give that a try. I also read that if you can get it unstuck that usually you are good to go as it will reseat itself. Any truth to this?

Thanks guys.

Mitch

Wow...... Sorry

so just to be sure it wasn't just an actuator failure, if you put the shifter in gear and push the clutch pedal down it will not start right?

Worth investigating. It sounds like it could be a clutch hydraulics problem. The CSC is prone to failure.

The clutch pedal feels normal, which is weird. The car will start both in and out of gear. But when it starts in gear it doesnt matter if I push the clutch in or not the car will move forward and start.

I have tried to use the starter to break loose the clutch by throwing it in 4th gear and then cranking over the engine, but it just held the starter. I have also tried going out in 2nd gear and slamming on the brakes with the clutch pressed in to try and free it with no luck. It just stalls the engine.

I am going to give Zspeed a call and see if Joe has any suggestions on what is going on.

If it doesn't work, I do have the clutch you will want to have ;)

Im listening, lol.

to melt ceramic you would need some intense temps!

Wow that's odd. I had the ZSpeed daily disk that fused itself to the flywheel from a dig at the track, and was sent the 8 puck clutch disk a week later. So far I haven't had any sticky issues, but it makes quite a bit of swirling noise whenever I'm going in reverse on a slope.

Yeah I spoke with Joe at Z speed and he thinks the probability of getting it unstuck is next to none. Going to go out and try this morning after it had time to cool, maybe it cooling down was enough to allow me to separate.

If your gonna break it, break it good right? argh

Joe said he has never heard of a ceramic melting to the flywheel. I guess I am just that lucky.

Check the master cylinder and csc first. Seems more likely than melting a clutch?

Wow Mitch.... sounds like you need to unbolt that Twin Scroll right away and sell it to me for dirt cheap! :stirthepot: Obviously you just can't resist torturing that poor 40th! lol

Good point. When mine fused, my car would die while it was in gear. Plus, I couldn't get it in gear without shutting down first. My tech had to use a mallet and screwdriver to separate the clutch from the flywheel.

Get the car on a lift, grab a flashlight, and peek through the rubber dust cover while having someone step on the clutch pedal to see if the CSC moves. If it doesn't move, then maybe the master cylinder failed.

My car will die when i'm in gear. If it was the CSC failing I would have no clutch. I have the complete opposite, the clutch will not disengage.

Also I found out today that the car will not let you brake boost the car. As soon as you press the brakes and try and get on the gas it will cut all the fuel to the car. I was going to try loading up the clutch and essentially press all three pedals at the same time to break the clutch free, but the car would not let that happen.

Mark - Just goes to show what these cars can take. They're are awesome cars.

Reading this. I wondering if your clutch disc broke and is jammed in the pressure plate. :icon14:

If the clutch will not disengage then it could be the hydraulics. You may have welded the discs to the flywheel and the CSC just can't supply enough force to break it free but I don't think you have eliminated the hydraulics yet.

At this point its drop the tranny time

The clutch is spring release and when you want to disengage it you apply pressure to the CSC which takes the clamping force off the pressure plate and allows the clutch to sit in between the two and free spin.

But yes it is pull the tranny time. Ill let you know what I find.

Thanks guys.

Mitch

pull the stop lamp fuse from the drivers kick panel if you want the ECU to not close the throttles when you try and throttle and brake at the same time. This is what everyone who drag races has to do with a Z to get a proper burnout. There are other ways, such as putting a toggle switch on the stop lamp input to the ECU, etc... but the quick easy way is the stop lamp fuse. I believe its the 3rd from the bottom, left column.. Take note, your brake lights will not work with this fuse out!

But I would just pull the trans :)

yup sounds like it's stuck at least you got the clutch and flywheel from the same company so you only have to call one place.

Oh hello. lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psd0b04c61.jpg

There are more pictures in my build thread. Needless to say a single disc clutch cannot handle second gear launches, lol.

Wow! That was fast!

Yeah.. lol about 5,000 miles on that clutch. haha.

Mitch, if this kit is able to handle your driving, it will take anything anybody can throw at it :)

2 sets of RE11's in one season as well. :)

It is an amazing kit, and all in all has been holding up very well to my abuse. Hell the whole car has really not missed a beat at all.

Thanks Sasha. :tiphat:

Good job by the way!

Two sets of tires and a demolished clutch in 5k miles? Are you testing to destruction? :rofl2:

Day-uhm! So much for my bad hydraulics theory. :)

Did you end up with a new flywheel and pressure plate? Mine wasn't as bad, but there were pieces of the material stuck to the flywheel. It was resurfaced. The pressure plate remained. It's weird when I modulate the clutch pedal in reverse it feels and sounds like the clutch disk clapping with the flywheel. It won't hold pressure consistently or something. I'm running the full face ceramic.

I got the flywheel resurfaced and got a new pressure plate. They took off 0.008" off the surface of the flywheel to get it true again. Could it be that your pressure plate deformed a bit from the heat as well? Mind you you think that if that was the case its holding power would drop off considerably.

Turn up the boost and try a 3rd gear launch now.... :stirthepot:

Just had a South bend stage 3.5 clutch fuze to the flywheel as well... Any suggestions on a better clutch? I plan on giving Joe at Zspeed a call

ATS twin disk or OSG twin disk

It was a full face ceramic single disk rated to 600tq. I'm at 490tq

Isn't the clutch rated for flywheel torque? 490 at the wheels is damn close to 600 at the crank.

I believe you're right. I bought the clutch from someone on here who was running a stage 2 fast intentions twin turbo kit. He had no problems and had more power than me. I'm guessing he didn't beat on his car much

The full face ceramic (not 6 puck ceramics) are more prone to fuse with a lot of slippping/abuse. If you throw enough heat at metal it will melt and can fuse.
True 6 puck style disk have a lot more open area to let the material cool, full face designs don't have as much area between the pucks for cooling so they will build more heat when slipping albeit they tend to drive slightly better for ceramics.

It can happen with any metallic type clutch material if it gets hot enough to melt the material.

You should never slip a clutch more than a second or 2. It is building a ton of heat during this time and wearing the clutch very quickly as well. Heat is the enemy of any clutch. Heat wears the material faster, It can also cause the diaphragm spring to lose tension/force if over heated enough times dropping the clamp load down.

If you do a hard launch with slicks etc and the clutch builds too much heat instantly and doesn't hold you can end up in the same boat as the clutch will slip under its full clamp force which really builds the heat quickly.

A properly rated clutch for your application should hold on a hard launch, It is best to side step a puck style clutch quickly rather than slipping it out of the hole (Caution, danger to drivetrain)

Slipping a clutch at high RPM out of the hole for a smooth launch is the worst thing you can do to a clutch. Yes drag cars slip their clutches out of the hole, They actually set them up to slip for the perfect launch but they use materials designed for this and rebuild them after every run!