Damn clutch, I'm out of ideas...
 

About a month after I bought the car I started having issues getting into and out of first and reverse. I took it to Nissan and they said they couldn't reproduce the issue. I think they just didn't want to touch the car because I have the Stillen supercharger installed. I've never tracked my car but I figured Nissan wouldn't be too keen on helping me out because of the supercharger. After reading up here and having S&R look at it we agreed it might be the infamous CSC issue or possibly the clutch. I figured if we were going to have to crack open the bell housing I might as well do some upgrading. After a new CSC, flywheel, clutch and pressure plate made no difference at all in the shifting, I bled the clutch line. The bleeding helped a little but the problem was still there so I took it back to Nissan. I explained (in detail) what I had done to troubleshoot the issue. This time they were able to reproduce it and recommended a new transmission. Nissan replaced the transmission, flywheel, clutch and pressure plate under warranty. I also convinced them to leave the upgraded CSC in there.

Now about a month into the new trans I am having the same issues I was having before. The transmission is giving me a hard time when trying to get into first gear. I have definitely narrowed the issue down to the fact that the clutch is not fully disengaging. The problem is at it's worst when the car is hot (driving 40+ minutes in stop&go traffic). In the last few weeks I have had two instances where the car would not roll while the clutch was all the way to the floor and the trans was in gear. If I took it out of gear then the car rolled freely. A few days ago I was sitting on level ground and released my parking brake and the car started rolling forward until I took it out of first gear. This confirms that the clutch is not fully disengaging.

Since all this seems to be clutch related I had Nissan replace the clutch master cylinder and bleed the system (for about the 4th time). It didn't make any difference at all. I also had them adjust the clutch pedal but all it did was make the engagement more harsh. The problem was still there. At this point Nissan recommended a new pressure plate again and wanted me to pay for it. I laughed because two stock and one after market pressure plates can't all be bad. I took the car to another dealer and they recommended the same thing. A new pressure plate.

I spoke to Bobby at S&R Performance this week and he suggested replacing the master cylinder again. He said that he has seen new ones bad out of the box.

At this point I have replaced everything but one or two pieces of clutch line. I'm out of ideas and open to ANY suggestions.

I'm hoping there's some Z guru out there that can help me fix this thing because I'm losing my mind over this and am seriously considering getting rid of the car...

Thanks in advance.

What is your engagement point set at? It needs to be pretty high with our cars. You want less than 0.5" play up top.

When you had the transmission replaced, you needed to replace the CSC again. The CSC seal was damaged during the transmission replacement. Depending on which clutch/pressure plate you used would determine which CSC is best for your application.

My prefered choice of CSC is from ZSpeedPerformance. Pricey but bulletproof.

Sorry for the bad news, but there is no way around this one. You can try replaceing the clutch master cylinder but I believe the CSC is damaged.

zat did you read his post?

I did read it twice. What caught my attention was the bold part

I agree with Zat it gets destroyed when removing it.

My engagement point has never been that shallow. I start feeling resistance about 2" down. I have always had to put the pedal to the floor. I thought there wasn't much adjustment on the pedal of this car?

If this problem started happening after the tranny replacement I would agree with you. But the problem existed with the first tranny, clutch, pressure plate and CSC. The problem existed with the first tranny, aftermarket clutch, aftermarket pressure plate and aftermarket CSC. The problem still exists with the second tranny, new stock clutch, new stock pressure plate and aftermarket CSC.

I would hate to replace my new Zspeed CSC but I would gladly do it if I knew it would resolve the issue. Unfortunately I don't think it will. Otherwise wouldn't the issue have been resolved when I had the aftermarket CSC installed on the first tranny?

Mr&Mrs,
I see that you're in Tampa. If you have time one weekend I'd like to meet up and have you take a spin in my Z and get your opinion on the clutch/trans.

We can try to make it happen but I work ALOT. You will probably have it fixed before that happens lol. Maybe the first time it was an issue with both, but if you do some reading the CSC does get torn up when removing it. I would think it has to be part of the issue (again).

this is why i asked if you read it zat. i saw the part about re installing the CSC but he had the issue even after the first new CSC was replaced.

This is a really good and useful read, as my Z is currently in the shop having the CSC replaced because it pooped out on me a week and a half ago. I have another question to anyone who is knowledgable about the clutch systems in these cars: Since I'm getting the CSC replaced, should I go ahead and get the master replaced too? Or will that really not matter in this case?

I wouldn't bother with the master until it actually begins to fail. It's an easy replacement from the engine bay so there's no need to spend the money now. Unless they're doing it all under warranty. Then you might as well.

After Digi brought up my engagement point I've made an interesting observation of my clutch pedal assembly. If I apply all the pressure to the left edge of the pedal instead of the center of the pedal it shifts more smoothly. Looking at the pedal it looks a bit higher than the brake/accelerator but it doesn't look bent. The clevis pin is free floating but I didn't take it apart to see if it was actually bent (it started raining).

Is it possible the pedal or pedal assembly is slightly bent and out of spec? To the point where it is not pressing the master cylinder plunger all the way?

It is my understanding that the clutch pedal travel is limited and cannot actually push to the bottom of the master cylinder. If so a bent/out of spec assembly + a limited travel clutch may not be fully cycling the master cylinder.

I know I ran across a thread awhile back about a clutch bleeding problem someone had and a performance shop actually took apart the master and hard lines to find the problem. That's where I read the the pedal doesn't full cycle the master.

If I absolutely knew a new slave would fix it then I would eat the $600 in labor. But right now everything is an educated guess.

Shoot me a message if you have some free time. I'm free weekends or after 6PM weekdays.

PM'd

Thanks for the advice, it's good to know that it will be an easy fix should it begin to fail and need to be replaced. I'll hold off on the master for now since my warranty just expired this year in April. I should've thought more about that before I jumped on the deal for the car. Oh well, can't do anything about it so no use whining about it. The car is in superb condition so outside of knowing how it was driven by the previous owner (It's an '09 with 26k on the clock when I bought it, so that's a good sign) it seems like a solid car that was very well taken care of. Extremely clean. One last question:

Should I have my mechanic take a look at the clutch disc and all that stuff to look for any excessive wear and tear so that I can at least know it's worn and have a forewarning that something might need replaced soon? Or will that result in an extra labor charge?

I don't see why not. They have to drop the entire transmission to get to the slave in the bell housing. After that, to get to the clutch you just have to undo the bolts on the pressure plate. Shouldn't be more than an extra 30 minutes of labor.

Sometimes i have an issue where like you said, it won't go into 1st or reverse. The shifter won't go in its like its blocked. What i do if it won't go into 1st, is i shift into reverse and roll a few inches, then try 1st again and it works. Same with reverse if it won't let you shift go into reverse, roll forward a bit and then try reverse again. This has always worked for me, but my car rarely does this and I'm not sure if its even the same issue

Makes sense. I'll tell him to take a look while it's out. Thanks :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuct (Post 1942042) this is why i asked if you read it zat. i saw the part about re installing the CSC but he had the issue even after the first new CSC was replaced.

Same symptoms but different issues. I still stand by my diagnosis.

If the OP wants to be sure that it's not the CSC, it has to be a FULL system check, including the transmission shift alignment plate, master cylinder, measure pedal stroke (is the master cylinder even tightened properly to the firewall?) clutch pedal limit switches and pedal stroke, is everything straight and lined up? You can go further and check the orifice block in the clutch line, measure the volume of fluid the master cylinder per pedal stroke and bleed the CSC again and again. ..... and bleed it again!

One tip that Joe gave me was to pump the pedal several times before releasing the pressure to move the air bubbles to the top of the bleed line. Then do it again and again and again.

Then after all that you have to ask is it the pressure plate that’s broken?
Is the clutch frayed and catching? What if the pressure plate isn't tightened up enough and therefore not releasing the clutch fully?

I really have a hard time doing internet diagnosis as one never gets the full battery of symptoms or all the issues. I prefer to use all my senses in diagnostic analysis (touch, sound, sight) to determine the problem and try and find the issue.

My recommendation is now to find a excellent clutch shop that knows our clutch systems (it is very common now to find the CSC's on most vehicles now) and do a proper diagnostic check to determine the cause.