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-   -   NISMO 370Z Differential Failing (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/6104-nismo-370z-differential-failing.html)

SoCal 370Z 06-29-2009 12:19 AM

NISMO 370Z Differential Failing
 
Nismo 370Z Differential Failing Article :icon14:

chubbs 06-29-2009 12:29 AM

Nissan really need to improve one or two things for the 2010, don't you think?

370Z Purist 06-29-2009 12:37 AM

I seriously don't see the logic on putting a VLSD on any sports car. Specifically one that is likely going to see track use. Time to shove in a nice clutch type.

Brazilbro 06-29-2009 12:49 AM

sounds like nissans dirty little sercets are finally seeing some light

Dav 06-29-2009 01:29 AM

Idiots.
Such a big campaign to sell them Zs and then these BAD news..
I guess this will be the same for the european "Nurburgring edition".

One_Quick_Z 06-29-2009 01:34 AM

At least they are making it known about the oil temp issue and the diff issue.....maybe nissan will give us the oil cooler if more articles are wrote about it



DAN

Forrest 06-29-2009 02:41 AM

i think eventualy they will be forced to admit it.

370Z Purist 06-29-2009 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forrest (Post 102118)
i think eventualy they will be forced to admit it.

Just because Nissan admits it doesn't mean they'll do jack about it.

NIZMOZ 06-29-2009 12:20 PM

It's not just the NISMO it's the 370z period. A few here already had it happen.

ArtVandaleigh 06-29-2009 12:39 PM

It's becoming a bit rediculous now, especially promoting a TRACK-ORIENTED car without adequate cooling and now rear diff. Looks like to keep the costs down they really skimped out on a few key areas, at least for a sports-car.

nogoodname 06-29-2009 12:51 PM

it's coming back to bite them Nissan ppl in the bum now.

Reality 06-29-2009 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Z Purist (Post 102070)
I seriously don't see the logic on putting a VLSD on any sports car. Specifically one that is likely going to see track use. Time to shove in a nice clutch type.

It worked on the z33. I don't recall any ppl blowing up the diffs on lapping days..


Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtVandaleigh (Post 102328)
It's becoming a bit rediculous now, especially promoting a TRACK-ORIENTED car without adequate cooling and now rear diff. Looks like to keep the costs down they really skimped out on a few key areas, at least for a sports-car.

Agreed.. Def swaying my decision to move to this platform, right away.

mrmixitup 06-29-2009 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Z Purist (Post 102120)
Just because Nissan admits it doesn't mean they'll do jack about it.

They basically admitted the QR25 was a piece of sh*t, but to this day they still put the engine in the Altima.

God, I hope I don't get burned on this car like I did when I purchased a brand new Sentra SE-R Spec-V back in 2002. That car was the worst car ever made by Nissan and a huge disappointment. Everytime I see one on the road (which isn't often since few are still running) I vomit.

mrmixitup 06-29-2009 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtVandaleigh (Post 102328)
It's becoming a bit rediculous now, especially promoting a TRACK-ORIENTED car without adequate cooling and now rear diff. Looks like to keep the costs down they really skimped out on a few key areas, at least for a sports-car.

How many people are REALLY going to take their 370Z to a track and race it competitively? Less than 2%.

I agree that the LSD should have been built a little stronger, though.

135i owners are finding out that their Brembo brake calipers crack severely (requiring complete replacement) under hard braking at the track.

GingaBreadMan 06-29-2009 09:03 PM

U guys hafta understand u r getting a lot of car 4 the money. If u r a enthusiast u will upgrade ur vehicle as necessary. The 370z is amazing. I am very satisfied and I will tune it 2 make it even bedda.

m4a1mustang 06-29-2009 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GingaBreadMan (Post 102687)
U guys hafta understand u r getting a lot of car 4 the money. If u r a enthusiast u will upgrade ur vehicle as necessary. The 370z is amazing. I am very satisfied and I will tune it 2 make it even bedda.

lolwat?

370Z Purist 06-29-2009 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 102689)
lolwat?

:iagree:

Phimosis 06-30-2009 03:45 AM

My thoughts:
1) If you "under-engineer" a car to save money, you end up replacing a lot of parts on warranty, thereby paying for 2 or 3 of the original parts + labor for exchange, rather than a 20% premiun for an upgraded part from the begining that can tolerate the abuse. This gives a rationale to make the car durable in the first place.
2) As the end user, if you modify an under-engineered car and it breaks repeatedly, they say you broke it from abusing it, denying warranty and you have to pay for replacement parts repeatedly.
3) If you under-engineer a track oriented car and it breaks repeadedly, it gets a bad reputation and people stop buying it even after you fix the defective parts in upcoming model years because there are other cars on the market that are cheaper to purchase and maintain under race conditions.

StreetSpeed 06-30-2009 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmixitup (Post 102350)
How many people are REALLY going to take their 370Z to a track and race it competitively? Less than 2%.

I agree that the LSD should have been built a little stronger, though.

135i owners are finding out that their Brembo brake calipers crack severely (requiring complete replacement) under hard braking at the track.


I for one, am really going to track it. First oil temp issues and now differential issues? I GOTTA think Nissan is gonna make good on it in the not so distant future.

Coincidentally, the OTHER car I was interested in was the 135i, which also has cooling issues, and now brake issues? Perhaps I'll stick with my rock solid GTI for awhile longer...

kster 06-30-2009 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StreetSpeed (Post 103369)
I for one, am really going to track it. First oil temp issues and now differential issues? I GOTTA think Nissan is gonna make good on it in the not so distant future.

Coincidentally, the OTHER car I was interested in was the 135i, which also has cooling issues, and now brake issues? Perhaps I'll stick with my rock solid GTI for awhile longer...

I agree. I keep reading about new "sports cars" breaking at the track as well; I think I'll keep beating on my perfectly reliable Miata.

Brazilbro 06-30-2009 11:43 PM

no car is perfect i mean take my evo for example, its a track oriented car and it,....uh.. it... humm.. well maybe there is a perfect car..

ooo just remembered the temp. knob for the a/c / heat breaks in the 03-04 models..:tup:

tbonesteak 07-01-2009 01:30 AM

exact same reason y i'm waiting a year to have some bugs fixed. I know i want this car but just not now. I regularly track my s for the last 3 years and all i do is oil changes, replace brake pads, tires. Bulletproof. Too bad this car can't hang with the crowd anymore.

smartbomb 07-01-2009 01:15 PM

This should come as no surprise. The differential would fail without a cooler. Its all about airflow and diff location. The 350Z has this same problem as well. Look at the pre-production test cars we photographed and wrote up, they all had diff coolers.

The Nismo car doesn't really have a Nismo performance LSD, that is a Salisbury mechanical LSD. The Nismo 370Z has a viscous LSD, the same as the stock sports model.

Also note that the R200 diff in the 370Z is very strong and has a long history as being a durable piece that is exceedingly strong that can hold 1000 hp under racing conditions in the IMSA GTO Z and various racing GT-R's and Z's though history.

The issue is that in both the 370 and 350, there is no air circulation around the diff and it heats up. Generaly about 30 minutes of track time is about what it takes for the temp to start getting critical. GTA makes a diff cooler kit and we have all sorts of info and tips on the other site for what to do if you have a track driven car

imag 07-01-2009 04:57 PM

Note that the reason the newer cars are having issues is that they are quite a bit faster. The horsepower wars have put cars into a category where a lot of other parts need to be upgraded. In addition to brakes and driveline parts, the high cornering speeds and sticky tires will also no doubt impact wheel bearings, bushings, etc.

Remember, these cars are seriously fast - as fast as the supercars of the early '80s - and they are darn sure more reliable than a Countach or a Testarossa. And race cars - designed from the ground up for use on the track - are not "reliable" in any sense. Colin Chapman, perhaps the best race car designer ever, pushed the idea that if things weren't breaking, they were over-engineered. I'm not saying I want a car that breaks, I'm just saying that we have to understand some of the difficulty involved.

People rail on Toyota and Honda for building boring cars, but they are the ones that really drove home the idea that a car would "just work". Now we're all used to it, and we're starting to take offense at the idea that a car will have problems, even when it is being used at 10/10ths at the track.

A track environment is, by definition, severe. We need to accept that driving hot sh!t cars there will be costly. The Miata is reknowned because it has been, and continues to be, the cheapest possible way to get track time. But when you double the horsepower and only add a few thousand dollars, and you can't expect the car to be bulletproof.

My $0.02 anyway...

smartbomb 07-01-2009 05:05 PM

The R200 is a very strong diff, there is no way the VQ37VHR is going to stress it out. This diff has been used on very high powered race cars under actual racing conditions with good reliabilty. It can withstand the stress of a turboed VQ motor no problem. The issue is purely temperature related and is solved with an oil cooler.

NIZMOZ 07-01-2009 10:20 PM

^^ Maybe true, but how come the 350z never had issues with their Diffs?

smartbomb 07-02-2009 12:25 AM

If you read my posts in this thread and places like my350Z you would know that the 350Z and 370Z have identical problems with heat build up.

350Z's in real racing conditions will start to fail their diffs at around the 30 minute mark. SCCA T2 Z's have to install dif coolers or the diffs will fail by locking up. A T2 car is like a street car full modded with bolt ons.

I have a bunch of experience with racing and tracking the 350 and carefully monitoring diff temp. If you are on the track for more than 30 minutes at a time, something will eventually happen in a 350 or 370. With a cooler you will be fine, even with a mechanical LSD, sticky tires and turbos.

FricFrac 07-02-2009 02:42 AM

Is the R200 refering to the ring gear or is this the same diff from the 280Z, etc?

batman_4 07-02-2009 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartbomb (Post 104513)
350Z's in real racing conditions will start to fail their diffs at around the 30 minute mark. SCCA T2 Z's have to install dif coolers or the diffs will fail by locking up. A T2 car is light a street car full modded with bolt ons.

+1, have seen it in happen twice in person at a track event and at a drag strip (guy was being stupid though at the strip)...after that i decided to stop 'racing' my 350 and just spectate lol

Rans 07-02-2009 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartbomb (Post 103884)
This should come as no surprise. The differential would fail without a cooler. Its all about airflow and diff location. The 350Z has this same problem as well. Look at the pre-production test cars we photographed and wrote up, they all had diff coolers.

The Nismo car doesn't really have a Nismo performance LSD, that is a Salisbury mechanical LSD. The Nismo 370Z has a viscous LSD, the same as the stock sports model.

Also note that the R200 diff in the 370Z is very strong and has a long history as being a durable piece that is exceedingly strong that can hold 1000 hp under racing conditions in the IMSA GTO Z and various racing GT-R's and Z's though history.

The issue is that in both the 370 and 350, there is no air circulation around the diff and it heats up. Generaly about 30 minutes of track time is about what it takes for the temp to start getting critical. GTA makes a diff cooler kit and we have all sorts of info and tips on the other site for what to do if you have a track driven car

Also, it seems like a simple thing to resolve, if you are going to track the car, then add a diff cooler and oil cooler. Tracking cars requires some additional mods, it's really quite simple. If you don't take the precautions, then pay the price.

smartbomb 07-02-2009 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac (Post 104555)
Is the R200 refering to the ring gear or is this the same diff from the 280Z, etc?

It is almost the same R200 as in the 280, the nose of the 240SX, 300ZX, 350Z and 370Z is referred to as the short nose R200 as in the pinion area is shorter. The older R200's are called the long nose version. The 300ZXTT and Q45 use the oddball R230 diff.

NIZMOZ 07-03-2009 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartbomb (Post 104513)
If you read my posts in this thread and places like my350Z you would know that the 350Z and 370Z have identical problems with heat build up.

350Z's in real racing conditions will start to fail their diffs at around the 30 minute mark. SCCA T2 Z's have to install dif coolers or the diffs will fail by locking up. A T2 car is like a street car full modded with bolt ons.

I have a bunch of experience with racing and tracking the 350 and carefully monitoring diff temp. If you are on the track for more than 30 minutes at a time, something will eventually happen in a 350 or 370. With a cooler you will be fine, even with a mechanical LSD, sticky tires and turbos.

I have been part of the other 350z site since early 2004 and no one had these problems with heat build up or diffs failing. I race my car in 100+ degree heat here and it doesn't have a issue period.

smartbomb 07-03-2009 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ (Post 105482)
I have been part of the other 350z site since early 2004 and no one had these problems with heat build up or diffs failing. I race my car in 100+ degree heat here and it doesn't have a issue period.

If no one in the 350Z world really experiences diff failure then either, their hot lap sessions are shorter than 30 minutes and/or they are slow or running an open diff or they are street racing.

All SCCA T2 350Z's have to run diff coolers and they are about the equivalent of a bolt on modded street car power wise with well developed suspension. Same thing with Grand Am Cup 350's which are lightly modded and run on DOT tires as well.

Many street 350Z's driven by good drivers have had their diff's fail when the session was longer than 30 minutes, usually by bearing failure and the diff locking up. In the 350Z racing community, it is common knowledge that you have to run a diff cooler.

In testing I have cataloged diff temps and we usually have to stop right past 30 minutes of track time as the diff temp is starting to go above 300 degrees. The M-Workz 350Z didn't have a diff cooler but we had to run partial sessions in it until we installed one.

There is plenty of empirical evidence proving the 350Z diff fails due to overheating. The thing about forms is the signal to noise ratios are really poor unless some of the smarter guys are active. In most mature forums, they tend not to be.

Getting into arguments like this one discourages people who really know what they are talking about from contributing.

need4speed 07-03-2009 10:43 PM

Ginga bread man has a point. But I still think the oil temp issue is nissans responsibility.
But on the diff. It fuctions well on the street in sporty driving styles.
If u gonna track it? Get the quaife lsd. true track guys void the warranty in the 1st week. Lol

L33T Z34 07-12-2011 06:52 PM

A different differential
 
2 Attachment(s)
Do the '11 Zs have a finned bottom R200V? If not, maybe the 2012s will. I know my '09 had a flat bottom R200V (38301-EH53D), but when I ordered a new diff I got 38301-EH52D which has the finned bottom and jack peg.
I'm just curious when Nissan started to install this from the factory...

fuct 07-18-2011 02:17 PM

non of the nismo's year wise have a finned bottom diff cover. but you can order one online and install it yourself. what i will do when i change out my dif fluids.

L33T Z34 03-19-2012 11:53 PM

My coworker went to the Chicago autoshow this past FEB. He took pictures of the rear diff in the 2013 model. The '13s apparently still get the old flat bottom R200. :thumbsdown:

DEpointfive0 03-03-2013 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L33T Z34 (Post 1214162)
Do the '11 Zs have a finned bottom R200V? If not, maybe the 2012s will. I know my '09 had a flat bottom R200V (38301-EH53D), but when I ordered a new diff I got 38301-EH52D which has the finned bottom and jack peg.
I'm just curious when Nissan started to install this from the factory...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuct (Post 1220807)
non of the nismo's year wise have a finned bottom diff cover. but you can order one online and install it yourself. what i will do when i change out my dif fluids.

:iagree:
None of them had/have it, but this one is especially sexxxy because it has fins ON the diff itself, AND a jack point too!!!


Btw, fuct... I was going to put a finned cover on, but you have to drop the diff... That killed it for me... If I'm going through that... I'd rather install a custom cooler from the bottom drain valve to the top filling port

TerribleONE 03-03-2013 05:17 PM

holy dead thread batman

DEpointfive0 03-03-2013 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerribleONE (Post 2194596)
holy dead thread batman

Wow... I didn't even notice the dates... I don't search for threads usually... I click "New Posts", and that's what came up... LOL


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