Nissan 370Z Forum - Downshifting to 2nd or 1st while moving (technique)

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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)

- Engine & Drivetrain (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/)

- - Downshifting to 2nd or 1st while moving (technique) (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/51804-downshifting-2nd-1st-while-moving-technique.html)

Nick911sc

03-23-2012 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theboydiddy (Post 1616322)

I don't think you have a bigger foot. My clutch is really really up high. Like I have to let go all the way and just a tad bit at the end is when the gear engage it. And the kick back is ridiculous too. Is like if someone was kicking me on the foot. After a good 20 min ride my left leg HURTS !!!!

The engagement point shouldn't be all the way to the top... More between 50%-75% travel even at that... How many miles were on your car when you purchased it?

Vaughanabe13

03-23-2012 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theboydiddy (Post 1616322)

The kickback is because of the clutch helper spring. You need a lighter spring (or no spring) in there and it will fix that issue.

theboydiddy

03-23-2012 10:08 AM

Yeah I'm planning to start making changes in the car after I hit 2000 miles

I bought the car with 0000 miles. I got it with 00.8 miles because the dealership guy drove it to get gas wash it and do some inspection that all brand new cars has to have it

ZMan8

03-23-2012 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick911sc (Post 1616318)

I can keep my heel on the floor while regulating the clutch. But I suppose I might have a bigger foot than you or something lol.

Also, changing the clutch helper spring will help get rid of some of that rebound pushing your foot backwards.

strange, I cant shift with my heel on the floor and I have size 14 shoes? maybe because my legs are so long the angle is bad:( My thighs can't even rest on the seats).

Nick911sc

03-23-2012 10:13 AM

I don't shift while driving with my heel on the floor. I'm more saying regulating the clutch from a stop with my heel on the floor. Not sure why you'd do normal driving shifting with your heel on the floor after you're out of first gear.

ZMan8

03-23-2012 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick911sc (Post 1616394)

O ok that makes a bit more sense then. :tup:

I always drive with my foot in the air, but I'll try the coming out of stop heal on floor technique.

theboydiddy

03-23-2012 10:23 AM

Yeah I think it does feel weird to switch gears with the heel on the floor.
I'm just trying everything since I'm new to this. Trying to see which position I feel more comfortable with. But I gotta say my thighs haven't touched my seat yet as well.

Nick911sc

03-23-2012 10:27 AM

Sounds like you should move your seat up

ZMan8

03-23-2012 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick911sc (Post 1616413)

Sounds like you should move your seat up

Seat up? Im 6'4" I need it all the way back :ugh2:. When I said my thighs don't tough the seat I meant my legs are so long I can't keep them flat on the seat I have to bend my knees thereby raising my thighs higher.

Nick911sc

03-23-2012 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMan8 (Post 1616420)

I didn't realize you said that, I only saw that theboydiddy did, sorry. I wouldn't expect you to move your seat forward if you're 6'4 lol

How tall are you boydiddy?

ZMan8

03-23-2012 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick911sc (Post 1616427)

I didn't realize you said that, I only saw that theboydiddy did, sorry. I wouldn't expect you to move your seat forward if you're 6'4 lol

How tall are you boydiddy?

:tup: no worries

vividracing

03-23-2012 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAGAWAGA (Post 1615742)

what vivid said. This is my first manual car also, but I learned never to put in neutral unless you are at a complete stop (safety reasons). And from your description I would just rev match downshift (not heeltoe) from 4th to 3rd, then if you still need to slow down i'll heel toe to 2nd gear. Its really hard to heeltoe from 4th to 3rd @35, it can be done but i think its just better to downshift without hitting the brakes.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/16916675.jpg

Pelican170

03-23-2012 12:02 PM

haha, i think i actually drag my heel on the floor when i shift. Never really thought about it until now...

theboydiddy

03-23-2012 01:07 PM

I just got done driving and I noticed that I roll in 2nd gear even when I'm going slow 5-10mph. If the car is moving never on 1st gear. 1st gear ONLY when stopped and beginning to move again. I also noticed that I parked and forgot to pull the hand break. Luckly I always park and put on 1st gear and it wasn't a hill (immature mistakes)

kenchan

03-23-2012 01:31 PM

so the bodidddy you talking about driving MT on a Altima or on the Z with SRM? :confused: if altima, just double-clutch and rev high. you should be able to enter 1st gear if you do it right even at 15mph.

but again, i fyou're moving forward, just use 2nd gear.

theboydiddy

03-23-2012 02:27 PM

Talking about the Z M/T with SRM. I know I have to change my "drive" thing.
I don't ever switch to first. I find it pointless. If I'm coming to a stop sign I usualy just hold the clutch down and rolling look both ways and continue on 2nd gear taking off really slow. If I'm coming to a stop sign on a busy street I hold the clutch down (put it on first gear but continue to roll without letting go the clutch.) Make a complete stop 1st gear is already in with the clutch being held so then i let go the clutch slow and proceed. I don't drive with the s-mode on. I wanna practice and understand the car first, learn how to down shift as well. After I master all of that then I'll use the SRM, fix my clutch that is kicking back a lot and too high up as well

wdkwang

04-10-2013 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theboydiddy (Post 1616322)

sounds like you may want to try adjusting the clutch pedal engagement height. i was annoyed at the midpoint clutch engagement, as I like to have my heel on the floor as a pivot. I had it adjusted as low as possible. It now engages about 2" off the floor. ;) Much easier to modulate and live with.

kfull

04-10-2013 09:49 AM

^^^^random year old thread bump:inoutroflpuke:

Vaughanabe13

04-10-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfull (Post 2260238)

^^^^random year old thread bump:inoutroflpuke:

I was a bit surprised by the bump as well, since I started it, haha.

wdkwang

04-10-2013 02:36 PM

I was googling about it last night and ran into your thread

R0bDC

04-10-2013 05:39 PM

Noobs!;)

Dwight Frye

04-10-2013 06:54 PM

The OP needs to rethink his entire technique. Which would you rather replace, brakes or a clutch ? You shouldn't shift into 1st until you are at, or almost at a complete stop, and quit downshifting for engine braking if you are street driving. Save the F&F moves for the track and save wear & tear on expensive components. :tiphat:

Mitco39

04-11-2013 09:31 AM

I use engine braking as much as possible, always have, always will. IMO it is a safer alternative to throwing it in neutral and coasting, because if for whatever reason if you have to move and your in neutral its going to take a significant amount of time to get moving again.

I am not sure what sort of wear and tear you speak of? With SRM clutch wear is pretty much obsolete. Not to mention you are using your brakes less and running cool air through the engine while it slows down.

Plus it sounds cool! lol

Vaughanabe13

04-11-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Frye (Post 2260989)

Perhaps I did a bad job describing the problem or maybe it's the title, but I almost never downshift into first so that's a non issue. All of this hyperbole about how I'm wrecking my car really isn't needed. The question wasn't about whether or not to downshift to first. It was that I was getting some lugging at slow speeds in second and I just didn't have the proper timing I needed.

Mitco39

04-11-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaughanabe13 (Post 2261699)

You know, up until reading through this this morning I was shifting down into 1st all the time, with no issues. I will make a conscience effort to try and stay out of 1st for a bit and see how I like it. Like it was mentioned earlier in this thread, it does seem to lug a bunch, and especially with a turbo you dont want to have to lug it. You will have to wait so much longer for the boost to hit.

Rusty

04-11-2013 11:29 AM

Noobs! I'm been down shifting into first gear even before alot of you were even born. Learn how to drive a stick. First gear is there for a reason. Use it. :rolleyes:

cheshirecat

04-11-2013 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 2261924)

Noobs! I'm been down shifting into first gear even before alot of you were even born. Learn how to drive a stick. First gear is there for a reason. Use it. :rolleyes:

That reason being taking off from a dead stop.

Not all transmissions are built the same and the 370z does not enjoy being shifted into first while moving at anything faster than a crawl. The synchros yelling at you while they work to fix your technique should be a hint.

Anyway, as far as engine braking goes, it seems the transmission is stout enough to handle it without excessive wear and tear. As long as you are properly rev-matching, you shouldn't experience any issues.

Zenmaster

04-11-2013 01:19 PM

I always just engine break in second

gsxr750

04-11-2013 02:56 PM

Its best to not really shift the car down from second to first while moving , unless your speed is only around 10mph.

In stopping I only down shift once the car is almost at a stop (from 5th-1st etc.) to save wear and tear on the clutch and tranny.

Its a lot easier to replace brake pads, then a clutch or tranny.

Down shifting should only be done when really its really required or driving the car hard.

Rusty

04-11-2013 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheshirecat (Post 2262024)

I've got no problem with down shifting mine into first. 6th to 5th is another deal. :icon14:

gsxr750

04-11-2013 04:20 PM

Most of the shifting problems develop once there is wear or damage to the syncro rings.

I had a 98 Nissan Hardbody truck that was real easy to shift thru all the gears when new, but as it approached 100k miles you couldn't get the truck into 1st gear unless you were doing about idle or 5 mph.

Immediately after selling it I compared it to my new 2000 frontier and the new truck would go into 1st no matter what speed you were doing.

On the new truck decided to take it a lot easier on the tranny and not always down shift unless it was really necessary .

Also Mobile 1 synthetic tranny oil made it shift a lot smoother, the racing royal purple could help if you have problems.

IDZRVIT

04-11-2013 06:29 PM

Anyone like cod tongues?

forza370z

04-11-2013 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenmaster (Post 2262109)

I always break engine in just second

Re-ordered.:tup:

J/K J/K:p

Luciano13

04-12-2013 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaughanabe13 (Post 1614733)

Im not sure why your going from 35mph & 4th gear into neutral?? You should always down shift with braking. For one you will never have this problem if your engine is breaking as well as your breaks, 2 your brake pads will wear out 50% faster, & 3 the car sounds so much better if your down shifting gears. I know you mention first manual, but don't treat it like its an automatic. Manuals do NOT us engine breaking automatically, you need to make your car do that manually!!

Chteelers

04-15-2013 01:25 PM

My clutch pedal is never held depressed for any period of time. When decelerating, I shift down through the gears, engaging each one on the way down. In addition to adding engine braking, which helps settle the suspension during decel, this also means I can get back on the throttle at any point instantly because a gear is always engaged. The clutch is just used momentarily between gears, not held.

When coming to a stop, I ride 2nd gear to a near stop then shift into neutral.

Luciano13

04-16-2013 09:56 AM

:iagree: that's way it should always be done in a manual. If youth driving an automatic, u don't throw her into neutral @35mph when your about to stop. U need engine braking to keep it in the right rpm range in case u need to gitty up & go:driving:

mhcoss

04-24-2013 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vividracing (Post 1614829)

I was always taught to avoid leaving the car in neutral while rolling. In the scenario you described, here's my technique.

Heel-toe to brake while rev-matching for 2nd gear.
Place car in 2nd gear, let clutch out. Engine braking + pedal braking slows you down.
When you see your opening, hit the gas.

Look up Ayrton Senna in car footage if you want to learn some awesome foot work :)

This is exactly what I do as well

dP3NGU1N

04-24-2013 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaughanabe13 (Post 1614733)

I apologize if this is the wrong forum....I didn't see a section for non-track driving technique.

Anyway, I think I've gotten pretty decent driving the Z in 90% of situations (this is my first manual I've owned). However, there is one situation that I feel like I never handle correctly.

Say I'm approaching a yield right turn in 4th gear, 35MPH or so. I need to slow down a lot to check for traffic. I see a car and decide I need to slow down and possibly stop. So I clutch in and brake and either keep the clutch in or go into neutral if it's a longer brake.

Now let's say I underestimated how fast the oncoming car was going and the car has already passed me, and now I'm free to drive through the yield turn. Now obviously I need to engage a gear and I'm going probably 10-15 MPH in neutral/clutch disengaged. It seems just a tad bit too fast to switch into first, because prior experience tells me going into first will throw me forward from the sudden braking under load. So I try to engage 2nd. Here's where it gets tricky. The car really lugs and feels like it's going to stall as I engage 2nd. The RPM has already fallen despite the efforts of synchro rev. I have to give it significant gas in 2nd to prevent stalling and it takes a few seconds to get my RPM back up and get back into the power band.

So how should I have handled this situation? Just hit first and accept the jolt to prevent the lugging in 2nd? Or should I have blipped the throttle manually or done something before/after switching to second?

Regarding your scenario where you're in neutral, coasting at about 20mph, and RPM has dropped: If SRM is turned ON then it should give you a smooth shift into second at the proper RPM for the speed that you are going; regardless of how you're dropping the clutch (because it is perfectly synced). If this IS NOT the case then something is WRONG with your SRM.

If you want to do it manually then you need to match the engine speed with your drive shaft speed; at about 20 mph, 2nd gear should be somewhere in the vicinity of 2500-2800rpm (i can't remember because I do it manually). Either way you should never feel a jolt while driving if you are in the right gear for your speed. When driving any car I like to emphasize smoothness in any transition (gear change, lane change, turns, brake, acceleration) and speed will come.

Sorry if someone already said this, I didn't take the time to read the rest of the thread but I DID notice some troll posts to, what I think, is a legitimate question.

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