Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 623768)

Why would I want to talk anyone into doing anything? I'm not selling anyone any oil :confused:

I'm trying to make a decision on oil based on objective data rather than anecdotes or theories about what should and should not work. Whatever decision criteria anyone else chooses to use is his business.

Also, I haven't ruled out Redline, I'm just not sold on it based on the information I've seen thus far.

What I'd like to do is try to match each oil's adiditive spec sheet to the results and see if there's an obvious pattern.

In keeping with this idea, some of the oils with the lowest wear ratings in that data set also have the highest concentration of molybdenum, which is added specifically for that purpose.

Also, allegedly, some of the oils favored by racing teams provide superior protection only with more frequent change intervals -- I need to do more research on that, but the implication is that for a DD, these oils may not be ideal.

Regarding your post -- yes, apparently some of the tests oil manufactures report findings for are more appropriate for testing gear lubes and greases rather than engine oils (alledgedly Amsoil is especially guilty of this) -- that's why I take independently gathered wear data from a highly similar engine more seriously than theories about the meaning of various spec sheets or oil classifications by themselves.

Originally Posted by wishihadnav (Post 623803)

man unless your racing your car often i dont really believe you need to get this deep into oil..just change it often...if your looking for Moly just throw some of this into your oil..its excellent.

Products - MoS2 Anti-Friction

Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 623843)

Thanks -- I'll look more into that. The only thing is whether it stays in suspension or winds up pooling at the bottom of the oil pan...

Mixed reviews on BITOG after a quick search... tough to find good oil analysis data :shakes head:

As to why I care -- the same reason everyone else does. You want to put oil in your baby that you trust to keep it together and running smoothly. I just like to make these decisons based on the best available data, that's all.

In the absence of wear data, you're left with with untested hypotheses about what an oil's spec sheet means and faith.

This is the "oil nerds" thread after all :icon17:

Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 623843)

Thanks -- I'll look more into that. The only thing is whether it stays in suspension or winds up pooling at the bottom of the oil pan...

Mixed reviews on BITOG after a quick search... tough to find good oil analysis data :shakes head:

As to why I care -- the same reason everyone else does. You want to put oil in your baby that you trust to keep it together and running smoothly. I just like to make these decisons based on the best available data, that's all.

In the absence of wear data, you're left with with untested hypotheses about what an oil's spec sheet means and faith.

This is the "oil nerds" thread after all :icon17:

Originally Posted by Matt (Post 623893)

Here's my plan. I did my first change already (early, at 1500 miles) with Nissan Ester oil. I'm going to do a Blackstone analysis done to make sure everything has been good so far. Then I'll do another analysis on my Redline after an additional 5k miles (or whatever Blackstone suggests). If Redline doesn't look like it's meeting or exceeding the protection provided by the Ester Oil, I'll try out RP, or maybe M1.

Trying to figure out what oil is perfect for me by looking at other people's results will leave me dizzy. Those drivers will have different motors, different driving habits, different roads, different intervals, different everything.

I definitely am in the same boat as you as far as wanting what's best for the car though, and I applaud you for it.

Originally Posted by wishihadnav (Post 623899)

I understand what your saying but as previously stated by many here there is no "perfect" oil to meet everyones needs..everybody has different driving habits and weather to contend with..UOA's really mean nothing to us as those are specific to YOUR vehicle only..

Originally Posted by SigPapa226 (Post 379849)

:stirthepot: Here is an interesting table I found over at Bobistheoilguy. I thought I would share it with you. (URL:Redline 0w40 in a Nissan GT-R - Bob Is The Oil Guy)

Re: Redline 0w40 in a Nissan GT-R [Re: buster]
Resolute


Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Colorado Hi Buster,

Thank you for the kind words and welcome. I don't visit this site much and am sorry not to have responded sooner.

I don't really make recommendations on oils, since it seems you could run just about anything and be alright with a normal drain interval. However, here is a comparison chart I have made for VQ35DE engine oil analysis. I considered over 100 UOA results from this engine when calculating the average wear amount for each metal per brand. Every brand and weight are averaged, and then the wear is normalized for mileage across all the different brands and weights I've collected. There are a number of older oils which are not on this chart because of formulation changes, such as the older RP and M1 blends, and some G5 PP blends as examples. What is reported here are the current formulations which are on sale, and how they compare to the collected averages for each wear metal. Red cells indicate more higher than one SD from the average, green cells indicate one SD lower than the average wear, and gray cells indicate wear within the SD.

Most of the UOA's are from 350Z owners, all of whom have the VQ35DE engine and have been keeping a running log of their UOA's on a 350Z site. A couple of G35 owners and VQ Altima owners, like Nederlander75 two posts above, have also been kind enough to contribute.


Attachment 9027

Will

For you 350Z guys this may be old news, but I found a lot more info on Oil from "Resolute" on that site. Here is the URL since there was quite a bit of information consolidated in one place - VQ Oil Analysis and Info - MY350Z.COM Forums


AK - I hope this is a legal post. :confused:

Originally Posted by Z-Guy (Post 636877)

Okay, I'm new to this. What does SD stand for?

Originally Posted by Methodical4u (Post 1289417)

I know Bob, he used to be on the Evo site... there was not ONE question ever asked that he couldn't answer. The guy really knows his stuff. It's like the science debate.. you can go over and over numbers, but they will indeed change. I do believe some oils are better, a good synthetic however has always been my choice and I won't name a brand and get into a debate, but I can tell you my oil temps have been cooler and i'm happy with that :)

Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1289302)

Crickets...

A third UOA if anyone cares...

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...-uoa3-0w30.jpg

Long story short, I think I'm going to try redline on next oil change. I do mostly city driving, but it would be nice to compare and contrast with another oil.

I'll get one more UOA on this one (last fill had Castrol 0w30) just to have a clear baseline for comparison, then will get data on Redline 5w30 with next oil change.

Man... I'll be over 30K at that point.

Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1289830)

I won't debate it -- tell me :D

I'm wondering if maybe a 0 wt oil is too thin for the FL climate, especially in the summer. Could be that on start up it just isn't viscous enough.

Anyway, whether it's the oil or my driving habits, comparing the results with another oil should be informative.

If no change, then I guess I could either try a third oil, or just assume that those wear levels are not all that uncommon for city driving.

Anyway, I'm happy to see limited evidence of piston wear and my motor consumes zero oil, so if I can keep all that stable and protect the bearings a little better, I'll be happy.

Another possiblity is that it's not bearing wear -- supposedly lead particles can also come from the valvetrain... maybe the head really does need some sort of Ester oil to run optimally.

Beats me.

Anyway, I'll know better what's going on within the 10K or so.

Anbody else on here running the 0w30 German Castrol? If so, any UOA's?

Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1289830)

I won't debate it -- tell me :D

I'm wondering if maybe a 0 wt oil is too thin for the FL climate, especially in the summer. Could be that on start up it just isn't viscous enough.

Anyway, whether it's the oil or my driving habits, comparing the results with another oil should be informative.

If no change, then I guess I could either try a third oil, or just assume that those wear levels are not all that uncommon for city driving.

Anyway, I'm happy to see limited evidence of piston wear and my motor consumes zero oil, so if I can keep all that stable and protect the bearings a little better, I'll be happy.

Another possiblity is that it's not bearing wear -- supposedly lead particles can also come from the valvetrain... maybe the head really does need some sort of Ester oil to run optimally.

Beats me.

Anyway, I'll know better what's going on within the 10K or so.

Anbody else on here running the 0w30 German Castrol? If so, any UOA's?

Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1289830)

I won't debate it -- tell me :D

I'm wondering if maybe a 0 wt oil is too thin for the FL climate, especially in the summer. Could be that on start up it just isn't viscous enough.

Anyway, whether it's the oil or my driving habits, comparing the results with another oil should be informative.

If no change, then I guess I could either try a third oil, or just assume that those wear levels are not all that uncommon for city driving.

Anyway, I'm happy to see limited evidence of piston wear and my motor consumes zero oil, so if I can keep all that stable and protect the bearings a little better, I'll be happy.

Another possiblity is that it's not bearing wear -- supposedly lead particles can also come from the valvetrain... maybe the head really does need some sort of Ester oil to run optimally.

Beats me.

Anyway, I'll know better what's going on within the 10K or so.

Anbody else on here running the 0w30 German Castrol? If so, any UOA's?

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion (Post 1290101)

/\ Jordo, I'm running Mobil 1 0w-40. Been doing so since 5K and I'm at 13,1xx now. Haven't done a UOA but all the ones I've seen led me to believe that either it, or the castrol you're running are two of the best oils out there. My two cents would be to switch up to the mobile 1 0w-40 for 10K miles (two oil changes) and see what happens, it's an "off the shelf" oil, not something you need to order off the internet/go ot a performance shop to buy, to me, that has some weight.

Originally Posted by Methodical4u (Post 1290118)

I don't think it's to thin myself. I use 0 wt also and have used it in my last 3 cars without issue. The car runs so incredibly smooth, quiet, the temps are cooler and the gas mileage is better. Not by a huge margin, but enough to notice.

Originally Posted by tranceformer (Post 1290137)

I've used it twice last year, but only got one sample tested.

i think this one is it...

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a.../th_E20154.png

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 1290314)

I'll try and get my gc uoa's scanned in

Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1291094)

I'll try that after the Redline -- thanks :tup:


But you don't live in a really hot climate... what oil do you use?

My car runs super smooth too, burns no oil, and makes great power -- but that doesn't mean things aren't being gradually ground down inside. You really need a UOA to determine that.

No, I don't live in a year round hot climate. We have had multiple days of 100 degrees and over... not to mention that the humidity is just about ALWAYS high here which sucks and drives the heat index WAYYYY up. I don't live in a hot dry climate no, but my car sees over 100 degrees and then it sees 0 or below days... IMO that's a better test for oil.

I use AMSoil SSO 0w-30.

Cool -thanks! Your lead is nice and low. What kind of driving do you primarily do?




Thanks-- I'd appreciate that!

Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1291094)

Cool -thanks! Your lead is nice and low. What kind of driving do you primarily do?

Originally Posted by Methodical4u (Post 1291116)

I use AMSoil SSO 0w-30.

Originally Posted by tranceformer (Post 1291293)

That sample was the last one as a daily driver, no oil cooler either. That sample was probably 75% highway miles.

Originally Posted by Jordo! (Post 1291582)

Yeesh... then I definitely want to try something that minimizes lead wear.

Originally Posted by fuct (Post 1429110)

i thought the ONLY reason ester oil was "recommended" for our cars was the diamond polished heads, and that group 4 oils wont adhear to the polished heads.... causing them to get hotter and make more noise. other than that our engine runs perfectly fine with group 4 oils....

i was an advocate for redline for my first 24k miles. last two changes have been with a quality group 4 oil and everything sounds and feels fine.