Anyone have luck with slotted rotors?
 

So i think we all know our cars brakes have their.... "issues" to say the least (COUGH car and driver). I know a lot of this has been contributed to them overheating. i see a lot of discussion about running ducts from the fangs to cool the pads/rotors in order to get some fresh air in there, which sounds like a logical solution. However, i dont see much about people upgrading the rotors.

I plan on hitting the track a couple times soon and am somewhat worried about the dramatic fade i have been hearing about. i drive my car on the streets mostly so i dont want to do any "pure track" upgrades to my brakes. So far i am looking to go to motul rbf 600 fluid and hawk hps pads..?

My question is, would sotted/drilled rotors possibly aleviate some of the brake fading issues that people are experiencing on track days?

Any other brake upgrades that help this fading problem?

Also, anyone with good recommendations for pads that work well on the street and for occasional track use would be greatly appreciated. i want something that can hadle an auto-x/occasional trask sessions, but arent noisy as hell, dusty as hell, and tear up my rotors.

The brake fade/failures are all attributed to the stock pad and/or fluid.

The stock pads are not up to the task of track duty. And the DOT 3 oem fluid can boil quickly in a track environment. The rotors themselves are not the problem.

Upgrade your pads and fluid (track ready pad and a DOT-4 fluid) and you will be good to go for a track day.

I know you don't want pure track upgrades, but the pads and fluid are necessary if you want to last on track (in addition to an oil cooler of course). Pads are easy enough to swap in and out for a track day.

i think a brake fluid upgrade would be smart. i have thought about jsut buying a seperate set of pads and swapping them out but i didnt know if there were any pads that performed both duties well.

It's all a trade off. Track pads are designed to work in high temperatures... they can get you hurt on the street because you won't be able to keep them hot enough and they won't stop well.

:iagree:

What about track fluids? Do you really have to flush every time before n after a track day?

Everyone's track days are different, so I think it really depends. I am sure some will tell you that you need to do it for each track days, others might say otherwise. A Dot 4 fluid will definitely need to be bled more often than a Dot 3, though.

Hopefully some of the 370 track junkies can chime in here soon with their thoughts.

^^ agreed. where are the track gurus when you need em!?

I run my XP10/XP8 combo all the time and I'm running Powerslot rotors now. I am planning on getting a set of Carbotech Bobcats to run on the street since they're supposed to be a compatible compound with the XP pads and I'm getting tired of the ear-piercing screeching whenever I brake lightly.

Ideally I would change every couple track weekends... but I'm mostly lazy and I haven't had much trouble yet.

If your worried about fade I wouldn't get the Hawks pads. I have the HP+ and they have let me down on a couple of occasions on spirited driving and I'm about to take them to the track in two weeks. Boooo. But I'm at least going to get the most I can out of them then I'm going to get some Carbotechs (XP 8's for myself). Then something else for driving on the streets, maybe. For I don't DD.

Slotted rotors help move gas and heat away from the surface of the rotor. But also can reduce the life of pads also. On of those trade off deals.

But your best bet is get some good (great) pads for the track and keep you stock pads for DD along with getting SS lines and good fluid.

Hey Guys!

Just thought i'd chime in here if y'all don't mind. I've been racing and instructing for a little over 6 years now.

The problem with fade is cause by the OE pads heating up...heat transferring to the brake lines, fluid boiling and expanding in the OE rubber brake lines.

Stainless lines, Motul RBF600 or Endless RF650, and a higher temp pad should solve that problem.

I would stick with your rotors until they are done, and then upgrade to a slotted rotor to help aid in cooling. I dont recommend drilled rotors and they have a tendency to crack, and the holes just fill up with brake dust anyway! I have a rotor on display in my shop for those that insist otherwise.

As for pads, I'd recommend something like the Endless MX72 pads...they are a great pad that does well on the street and beginner/intermediate track driving. You will also find that they are quieter and less dust than the stock pads.

I'm a dealer for all this stuff...so if you need help with anything, feel free to shoot me a pm and i'll do what i can to help out!

Scott VanderHeide
Motorsports Director
Fontana Nissan
800-989-6173 x2253

great info scott. i'll have to look into taht form you guys, seeing as you guys just hooked me up with lightning fast shipping for my swifts!

No problem! Anything you need, just let me know!

Scott

Scott I sent you a PM

Heating also partially liquifies the surface on a lesser pad which contributes. That is why they slot rotors, to alieviate the gas build up on the pad surface.

I always kinda felt they were somewhat of a scam (not literally but just not worth the money).

Everyone seems to be running J-hooks now. Just look NASCAR, ALMS, Grand-Am, etc... everyone's running the J-hook.

The slots on the rotor are not there to lower rotor temps.

This may seem counterintuitive but any type of slot or drilled hole in a rotor will increase temperatures. Remember, the rotor is a heat sink. The more metal available to collect and dissipate heat, the lower the rotor temperature will be.

Yep, slots won't help cool the rotor at all. They will act like a cheese grater on crappy pads however. Run good pads and good fluid at the track and the fade problems will be mostly gone. You may still overheat the rotors by the end of a 20 minute session depending on how fast and hard you are.

These cars are so hard on the brakes that I don't think there is a usable compromise pad that will work on the street and the track. HPS is a good street pad but wont hold up long at the track, HP+ are awful at everything, DTC are decent on track but can't be used on the street. Honestly 2 sets of pads are required. I like the sintered pads for that as there is no bedding required and they handle extreme temps with zero fade.

Stop reminding me. But I am going to go ahead and use them up. Then I'll have to buy some street pads and track pads. Good thing I get hugh discounts on brake stuff.

I don't think anyone would claim that a slot (less material) would cool a rotor. The point is to relieve gas/liquid off the pad that causes fade. In essence it might "cool" the pad but regardless it could technically decrease fade but I doubt any more than a good set of aftermarket pads would.

Real pads only off-gas during bed-in, after that there should be next to none. Even modern street pads have hardly any off-gassing thanks to modern binders. If you get a street pad to the temperature that it starts to melt then a spongy pedal feel is a good signal to back the heck off.

so basically carbotechs and motul 600 will make a bigger difference than anything?

Yes.

Hi, I've been tracking a number of the brake related threads and I was wondering if Castrol SRF brake fluid would be a good choice as part of a pad and brake fluid upgrade? I know that it's really expensive but considering how much everyone is spending on brake issues it seems well worth it and the boiling-point specs are exceptional wet or dry. It would seem that it would make a significant improvement in preventing brake fluid boiling.

Any thoughts?

It is good fluid, just you're paying an arm and a leg. I use Motul 600 or AP 600 and haven't had any boiling. I do a partial bleed of the brakes each event and check for air bubbles. I'd rather keep fresh fluid moving through the system than use super expensive stuff that gets left in there all year.

Just saying, if your car is a DD, I would go with Motul 5.1 brake fluid. It will not absorb moisture like RBF600 and is still much better than stock. It's also less viscous which is good for ABS.

DO NOT USE DOT5 BRAKE FLUID, ONLY 5.1. 5 is a no-no!

I was just recalling Car & Driver's retest of the Nismo where even a pad and fluid upgrade failed to prevent the fluid from boiling.

So from your experience on the track you've had no fluid related problems when using Motul 600 or AP 600 fluids? That's good news.

You will need new rotors after the HP+ chew it up at the track....

I use Amsoil and they have been fine.

I only use Castrol SRF on the track. Worth every penny...

Eventually (as your skill increases) you are going to need to add brake cooling ducts.

It was mostly that they burned through the stock pads so quickly that they lost the pad protection layer (the pad material is an insulator). That allowed the fluid to quickly boil from the radiant heat. If you can find titanium shims that fit that will also give an extra layer of protection and help your dust seals survive more than 1 event. Brake ducts would be good too.

That's my thinking, it's your brakes, you REALLY want them to work!

SRF should be a winner on the street as well, what with its very high wet boiling point. Is there any reason not to use it on the street?

I've been thinking about the brake ducts as well but it will be some time before I get serious on that issue.

Titanium shims would offer some protection for the dust seals and the brake fluid, are they available and if so where and how much?

The only issue with SRF is corrosion. With stock fluid you can replace it and forget it. However, with SRF it must be flushed before 18 months (per the instructions) or you can do some damage.

Is it the fluid that does the damage or does it not provide a great deal of corrosion protection so it requires regular flushing?

It is because it is so resistant to absorbing moisture. Most fluids prevent corrosion by absorbing moisture but the high end racing fluids resist absorption.

So regular flushing of the system keeps the moisture at a manageable level, got it. I guess it's Motul 600 for everyday use and SRF for serious work.