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You've gone so hardcore that Nissan should just retain you as a consultant and use you for Z product development.
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That's very interesting and yet not very surprising when I stop to think about it. Actually I think we've all suspected it had something to do with the ABS programming. Why doesn't every vehicle have this problem though ? I would figure that every vehicle had the same ABS standard programming. Also could it be as easy as fix as a reflash ? |
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I totally agree with the diagnosis by Travis at this point as those are similar circumstances to where I've encountered the ice mode myself. The two major times I have encountered it was hitting the brakes after going over a sharp crest, and after hitting a crack in the pavement. Prior to that I had pad fade which was confusing the diagnosis. |
so now that we have the diagnosis... what do we do about it? ideas:
1. as binks points out, maybe there is some way to change the ABS computer to either get rid of the mode all together or 'widen the parameters' that cause this mode to kick in... I would have no idea where to start with this solution 2. fool the sensors into recording less wheel spin value difference... this is playing with fire, could cause more probs than it solves 3. disable ABS all together... again, not good for all but the most hardcore... I wouldn't do this 4. *much* stiffer suspension... band aid... prob requires 800 lb/in springs others ? |
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Here's another idea... softer anti-sway bars! Very stiff anti-sway bars are going to cause the inside wheel to lift and 'overspin'. When this happens on the rear axle WHILE BRAKING, that's precisely when our problem seems to occur. Compounded by the fact that the rear end is light... Inside rear corner picks up, inside wheel spins faster than outside, ABS reacts to the extreme wheel speed difference by assuming the car is spinning on ice and it uses a VERY AGGRESSIVE slow speed ABS that is locked in until the car reaches nearly a complete stop.
So now I'm contemplating using the softest setting on the rear sway. It will cause more understeer, which I will have to manage some other way. Like perhaps with a square tire setup (275 widths all the way around). Just a working theory. I'm very curious to know if anyone has had this problem with the stock sway bars. I'll have to go back and check notes from early last year before I got my sways. |
I second this!:iagree:
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I have a fully stock suspension and have upgraded my brakes with Motul RBF600 fluid and Carbotech XP10/8 pads. I'll be at Gingerman in three weeks and will report back if I get ice'd. Haven't had it happen before though, even on a wet track with stock pads and fluid (not that pads and fluid really have anything to do with it). Personally, I'd be happy to kill my ABS and threshold brake. I find it very intuitive and would be a nice flashback to driving my landrover defender in the snow. |
Had forgotten about the C&D incident until you mentioned it... you must be right - ABS icing.
If there had been a wall nearby yesterday my car would have been toast. If I remember correctly, the car resisted my steering inputs when it went into icing mode, which made the whole process tremendously difficult and frankly dangerous. I wonder if Nissan intended for the car to stop responding to driver steering inputs in this mode? If they did so deliberately, I think they have a serious liability that will eventually catch up with them and unfortunately some poor driver(s). Re threshold braking, it is only a solution for a select few drivers. I've driven karts and formula cars like this but for a TT car that I'm pushing to the absolute limit, I like the idea of having ABS to fall back upon. I'd much prefer a real fix to this issue vs disabling. Quote:
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Heavily following this, and bringing it up the ladder tomorrow.. as we also plan on heavily tracking our S/C'd 370Z, and will undoubtedly run into this as well.
Thanks for the collaboration of information, and I will happily post our findings as we get with Nissan and lean on our resources as well. You guys are awesome in your documentation, and a complete benefit to this community.. repping like crazy on this thread.. |
Thanks, Josh. Appreciate Stillen getting involved with the diagnosis and hopefully someday a solution. You guys are uniquely positioned to address this one, given your brakes expertise, knowledge of the ECU, relationship with Nissan, and the fact that you have skin in the game with your own car!
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Travis, you say you lost steering input as well. Do you attest that to the slow cycle time of the ABS in "ice mode" or is there a remote possibility that you could have run over something slippery given that you were braking off-line?
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