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Project: StanceParts Air Cup system
My summer project (in progress) is to install the StanceParts Air Cup system onto my Aragosta Type-S coilovers
The inspiration is the multiple threads asking about coilovers and comfort and functionality and such. Air Cups have been around awhile, I know that a handful of people have them, but there isn't really a good resource for applying them to our cars. Air Cups are a cross between "static" setups which use coilovers or pieces together springs and shocks and "bagged" setups which use a full air strut. The goal of this system is to provide all the performance of coilovers with the height adjustment of an air system. The air cups fit OVER your coilovers, so if your air cup system fails, you are not stranded like a full air setup would leave you. As background, here is my current ride height: https://live.staticflickr.com/7921/4...1bc814bb_b.jpg I occasionally daily it, and it gets up and down my driveway and the garage near work just fine; most speedbumps need to be avoided. I take care to leave extra space when i have to park near a curb. Ride quality for these coilovers (14kg front; 10kg rear) is great, even with full spherical bushings on the coilovers. I have SPL FUCAs and all the rear arms. Subframe bushings are stock. There is considerable height adjustment available up and down left. ================================================== ======== ***DISCLAIMER: I am not sponsored by any company (but if they wanna give me free stuff i'll take it*** Let's start with the Stance Parts hardware. I bought the full kit, which includes everything here: https://www.stanceparts.com/wp-conte...t-rear-kit.jpg Seems like a pretty complete package. They sell the hardware in different combinations, so if you want just the fronts, or if you want to piece together your own air supply, you can do that too. It's pretty affordable. When you add the kit to your cart is adjusted downward. I don't know why - I ended up paying roughly $1000 shipped from their base in Netherlands to California. Shipping is via UPS and took about a week. (NOTE: StanceParts is NOT the same as Stance, which primarily makes coilovers and also has their own air cup system. That system has gotten negative feedback from owners I have talked to) Here is a short video from Stance Parts' own Youtube channel that demonstrates the system: Stance Parts cups provide *temporary* lift and is not supposed to be driven in raised position. There are other air cup companies that may have parts designed to be fully engaged while driving. My vision is to mount the tank and compressor in the trunk, like this setup here (Instagram: @1Turbo370). http://www.dttrllc.com/uploads/2/2/5...1_i1_w640.jpeg It features a full carbon trunk panel replacement, which comes in two pieces as shown here: http://www.dttrllc.com/uploads/2/2/5...1_i3_w640.jpeg The panel is made by Synergy Composites. It comes in full carbon, partial carbon, or fiberglass. Price ranges from $300 to $650. Both the owner of the car (Blake) and Synergy Composites confirm that the carbon version supports the weight of the tank/compressor with no issues. It can take up to 4 weeks to get the panel, because they are made by hand to order; however, i ordered on 6/17/19 and was notified that it was completed today (7/4/19) and shipping tomorrow. While the owner of the car pictured has a blue theme inside and out, my color way is pearl white outside w/ black, carbon, and red trim. The inside is black and red. As such, my air tank is being wrapped in red. I wanted a black air compressor, but ViaAir does not make a black one in the same or similar size. ================================================== ======== Stance Parts requires the measurement of the diameter of the piston shaft on your coilover, in order to provide the correct size opening on top of the air cup. A digital caliper is the easiest way, but you have to at least take the front wheel off to access the coilover. Additionally, you need a caliper thin enough to fit between the openings in the spring. My Aragostas came out to 14mm (I really hope i measured correctly). Here's the front air cup https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...fb7c1a03_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...bdb8b84c_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...97ca06c7_b.jpg When fully assembled, the cup fits over the coilover spring like this (stock image using BC Racing Coilovers: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...g?v=1538431292 (As an aside, Aragosta also has an air cup system using hardware from Roberuta. It looks like this: http://www.gt-rr.com/media/catalog/p...osta7-bp-2.png It would have been easy to just buy the coilovers and air cups together, especially with the trademark slim air tube . . . but the **** is expensive. And I was stupid and didn't order them together when I first got coilovers.) These photos hopefully show how air cups work. When disengaged, the air cup is literally a metal cup that sits on top of the spring and is nothing but a metal cup shaped spacer. Putting them on will raise your car slightly, by the thickness of the top of the cup. When engaged, air will fill the cup and push the teal plate down onto your springs and raise the car. Unless I have measured the shaft diameter incorrectly, installation should be as simple as disassembling the top of the coilover, putting the air cup in place, reassembling, and then running the air lines. ================================================== ======== The rears are where more work needs to be done. Here's the current setup (stock image): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...11aaf827_b.jpg SPL mid-link w/ Swift springs (60mm ID) The spring is separate from the shock. Here is what it looks like without the spring (my actual car): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8ba5466e_z.jpg As you can see, the OEM top spring mount is just a rubber cone. That's not gonna work for mounting an air cup. SPL Parts provides metal top mounts with their midlinks. I had the old, non-adjustable version. Here is the new version, which I purchased separately from SPL: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...70dfd39a_b.jpg Look at the earlier image of the rear suspension - the spring is slightly leaning inward. The adjustable top hat will fix that, so this will be a small bonus when this is completed. The problem comes from the shape of that top hat: how is it going to connect to the top of the air cup? Unlike the fronts, which just have a shaft that go through it, the rears are just a spring. Thankfully, Stance Parts came through. They actually had a pre-existing, modified air cup that they designed for a customer with BC Racing coilovers, which they were able to send me: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...75e4ed61_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8e8e5788_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...db302078_b.jpg And here's where they REALLY came through - they put together a diagram with the exact measurements I need to machine the top hat down to in order to match the air cup: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c2b8faec_b.jpg I talked to my local suspension shop, and they know a machine guy who can do the job, so it looks like i'm set. Note that if you use BC Racing coilovers, you can use their top mount instead of the SPL one and the air cup will fit with no work needed. ================================================== ======== So in summary, where i'm at: - waiting for rear trunk panel to arrive - waiting for air tank to be wrapped - test fit compressor/air tank on the trunk panel and mark for drilling - after drilling the necessary holes, send the trunk panel to get Ceramic Pro coating for easy cleaning and extra scratch protection - machine the SPL Parts top hat to Stance Parts spec Then, move on to installation |
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Very cool project and surprisingly affordable. Can’t wait to hear your thoughts after the install.
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If you use BC Racing coilovers, skip the carbon trunk and wrapping the tank, i think it's doable under $3k, which is the ballpark for a full air lift kit
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This looks to be a great write up in the making. I’m excited to join in on the project! Haha!
You’ve got a very cool build and this just adds to it. |
I have stance cups...work great
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You mean Stance (coilover company) or Stance Parts?
The SPL top hats have been dropped off for machining, hope to hear back next week Carbon trunk panel scheduled for delivery on 7/11 |
Stance Parts + fortune coilovers
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Are you using True-type rear (should be direct fit) or did you have to put stuff together for OEM type rear?
And any reason you didn't use the Fortune Auto Air Piston Lift system? |
Carbon trunk panel from Synergy Composites is here!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7494e1a3_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ba560336_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5db66e91_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1fa2b0cc_b.jpg |
Nurse Necktat (scott) isn't working with him anymore, right? I was pretty sure that partnership ended a few years ago...
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The owner's name is Shawn, i have no idea who "Scott" is, so i dunno
The demo car (@1Turbo370) is owned by a guy named Blake |
That's gorgeous.
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O.Z. - Good to see someone else head down this route. However, if you plan on running two tanks I'd recommend you upgrade to at least a single Viair 480 compressor. I'm running a single 480 on a 3 gal tank and it's slow and loud when refilling after a few up/down motions. I'd hate to see how long that 440 takes by its lonesome although with two tanks it won't be as often.
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I remember seeing that guy, he had a race car where he was trying to get the weight down and offered porting services, right?
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Have had this on my car for a little over a year.No issues so far. Has saved me from parking lot speed bumps and deep driveways. |
Did you do the rears?
I am mounting my tank toward the center bc i dont wanna ditch the spare and have that weight at the tail |
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They where working on a prototype for the rear. My spare is can of tire flat. |
Update:
Machinest is having trouble getting the SPL conical spring perch to stay attached on a lathe. Trouble shooting, should be figured out soon enough on other hand, i got this back from powdercoating: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...59590d12_b.jpg Dupont "Jollipop" Candy Red Pretty good match for the red trim on the Nismo, but shinier |
How much weight did this system add to the car? How much does each cup weigh?
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Any update on the air cups?
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Project on hold bc my daily had issues
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BACK FROM THE DEAD
Project is actually in progress with a small snag that is specific to my personal goals front cups went on the Aragosta coils no problem. As long as you correctly measure the shaft diameter, they will send you the appropriate air cup with hole sized to match Rear is where i’m stalled. Picture is attached As mentioned before, the rear cup needs custom machining to mate with the SPL top mount so it can securely hold the spring in place. Alot of the delay was going with a really lazy machina shop that sat on my project for a while, but we changed shops and now thats done. As shown in the picture, everything mounts together correctly The SPL mdlink setup uses 65mm Swift springs, which fit essily into thr Stanceparts cup which is now mounted with the SPL topmount. As a side note that top mount is now adjustable, thanks to a new design For EVERYONE ELSE, the project is basically done. Mount the tank and compressor, run your lines like any air setup, and viola. My issue: the combined thickness of the SPL topmount and Stanceparts cup is approximately 2 inches thick. That means to maintain my current height, i need to be able to lower the spring 2 inches. The SPL midlink, at my current height, only had about .5 inches of downward adjustment, which means i would be 1.5 inches higher. Thats not acceptable to me, eapecially with new more aggressive wheels coming in So, i called SPL and the best we could do is a 5inch rear spring with the same weight (10kg). Apparently, no one makes a 4.5 inch, 65mm ID, 10kg spring; the next shortest length id 4 inch and the weights are completely off (more than quadruple the weight, if i recall). All of the lengths were eyeballed so once we get the new springs it may turn out the problem is solved If the 5 inch spring still leaves the rear too high i’ll have tougher choices: - live with the height like a bitch - ditch the rear cups - expensive custom machining on the SPL midlink spring perch to remove another .5 inches of material Ill punt that decision till next week or so |
Dammit, after ordering SPL/swift springs i just found out 326 power makes springs with 63 or 66 ID, 80, 100 or 120 mm length all in 10kg
Edit: Dammit x2 Looks like BC racing also makes an option: 120mm length, 62mm id, 10kg |
Can't you got with the 4" and raise with the lower cup till happy with height? Also it would help with cup clearing ground if it was ever an issue? Looks like cup has over an inch of adjustment.
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After more digging it looks like HYPERCO actually does make 4 inch, 65mm, 10kg (600 lb) springs, so i may do just that
Get a 4 inch spring and raise the perch as needed My concern going with a 2 inch shorter spring is whether at full compression, the bottom of the cup and top of the perch will hit each other If 4 inch is “too short” i could always stick a thrust washer or two or three and get back a little height without the perch Everything was closed this week, so i need to wait till Monday to stop the SPL/swift order and contact the nearest hyperco dealer (performance shock at Sonoma raceway) As for BC - someone actually pointed out that their springs are listed as “linear” but actually may not be. They have a slight conical shape, wider at the top and getting more narrow at the bottom. Wierd Also, 326 power stocks nothing stateside, so i would need to wait for japan shipping, which is impacted. Additionally they only offer 100mm or 120mm (4 or 4.75 in) I might as well go Hyperco which has a good rep and is stateside |
Thanks for posting all this, I'm on the fence between going full air suspension, or coils and cups. If I went with true coilovers in the rear the install would be a breeze I imagine?
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Theoretically, true coils in rear would be as easy as the fronts
Measure the shaft diameter Send the info to Stanceparts Disassemble the top of the rear coilovers Slide the cups on Reassemble Run your lines for air and electric Mount compressor and tank however you want Done Retaining the OEM divorced setup is what requires machining the rear cups Being low is why i need to **** around with spring lengths and such Cutout the last two things and its easy |
it's always good news/bad news, with progress stalling toward the end
Good news: Hardware installed. Tank mounted to the CF trunk panels, compressor hidden underneath, only essential lines exposed due to the tank design. The switches look pretty OEM on the center console https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...60782cd9_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...88df2f67_b.jpg Additionally, the cup system provides significant lift, as advertised. It works Fronts aired down (there is much more adjustment downward on the front coilover, we just didn't mess with it yet): https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f724b8e0_b.jpg Aired up, its like 2 inches of height gained https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...4a72d148_b.jpg Rear down https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...276bc521_b.jpg Rears up https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...045a4076_b.jpg The bad news, as described before, is specific to me. That rear static position is the lowest it will go, maxed out SPL midlink and a new 5 inch spring. The car's been on a lift so the springs have only been under load for about a day or so - the hope is it will settle a bit, maybe 1/4 - 1/2 inches. I want the top of the tire to meet the fender, which means . . . - 4 inch spring, which poses a problem of limited travel and the cup/bucket hitting - machining the bucket, unknown consequences and cost - removing the rear cups entirely, which is easiest but dumbest |
Great looking install. I’m sure you’ll find a solution that works for you.
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https://www.instagram.com/reel/CdpCC...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Quick and dirty video but…it is done. Delayed a few days due to a tire blowout but that seems to be resolved |
My final solution was a 4 inch height, 2.5 inch diameter, 600lb/ft spring from Eibach
We were able to trim the spring perch without machine work, it was thin enough metal we could take a centimeter or so off the top and that was enough to clear everything on compression When planning your final height, the stance cup adds MORE than an inch. Their measurements said 30 mm or so but there's no way it was that. It's more like 1.5-2 inches since I had to go down from a 6 to 4 inch spring. keep that in mind when thinking about where you wanna end up and your rear spring length/suspension parts planning If you don't care about being stance-low, you will have an easier time than i did |
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Final setup pictures
Note what was trimmed on the rear perch |
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