Adjustable camber arms...alignment time! More parts?
 

I just had some SPL adjustable camber arms put on the rear of my '14...naturally, I need an alignment. Badly.

No prob, called best alignment shop in town...he's saying something about cutting into the sub frame in order to be able to get the toe back in spec? Something about a larger cam eccentric or something?

Can someone shed some more light on this for me? Any help greatly appreciated. I'm pretty lost as suspension and suspension tuning is...like...this huge dark area to me since no one ever talks about it! Everyone and their mother talks about turbos and exhausts and all that non-stop but suspension tuning? NOPE!!

Here ya go

http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...tall-pics.html

Awesome. DIY, too. I like it.

Thanks!

Out of curiosity: Is there any real harm in driving short distances before getting the alignment done? I know tires are going to wear all wacky and it sure feels sketch as hell, but it's not likely to break anything, right?

I have to GET to the alignment shop...lol

Did you install stuff yourself? What did you install? I did coilovers, front arm, rear camber arms, and the rear Toe bolts mentioned above. Mine was so whack the traction/stability light was coming on, felt horrible. Toe is probably what is giving you the bad feeling. Mine was bad enough I didn't wanna drive it at all. So, I eyeballed the rear toe, and adjusted it myself to what looked good to the naked eye. Made a HUGE difference, and I wasn't far off once we got it on the alignment rack. You won't break anything, but you could eat a set of tires if its really bad.

Yea, I haven't done that much, and it's not that bad either. No traction light or anything. I had Pitstop (here in Phoenix) put in a set of Swifts a month or so ago and a set of SPL adjustable camber arms and 20mm spacers on Saturday. The camber arms did it...installed them so I could dial out a little bit of the negative camber in the hopes that I'll be able to put the power down a little better (which actually seems to have worked pretty well) and now the *** end feels super floaty and...weird...

Now I have to try to get up to ConceptZ to get the toe bolts.

I figured having **** pointed all caddywhompus would chew through tires pretty quick if I drove a lot, especially on the freeway but I couldn't care less about these tires. They suck anyway. I just don't want to break anything. Car feels SUPER weird but doesn't feel unsafe or anything. I should be good to make it up there.

Wonder if I could get under there and adjust it myself...just enough to make it drive a bit better. Hmm...

So if you just did rear camber arms, it shouldn't be bad at all. Hmmm. Adjusting the SPL camber arms should be pretty easy. You should keep the tires on the ground, and if you wanna go a step further, roll the tires up on some folded up trashbags. They are slippery, and allows the tires to move as you adjust so you can see what your adjustments are doing.

Very clever!

I just wrench away on that toe bolt?

Well, not really. I was thinking you wouldn't need to mess with the Toe, since you didn't change it. BUT, if it looks off, you can change it. I was thinking you might just need to touch up the camber using the new SPL part you just installed.

If you do adjust the toe bolts, you don't really wrench away at them. Here's how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQvBBXZ_cKI

You're just moving the Toe in and out (bolt moves left and right)

You can see how when you dremel out to make those elongated holes longer, and put in different bolts, you can adjust even more. Thats what your mechanic was talking about.

what the **** shop was this?

Makes sense. Thanks.

One of the best alignment shops in town. He was talking about enlarging the holes the toe bolts go through. While I think he is somewhat exaggerating the seriousness of the work, he's not wrong. lol

Sorry, i've never heard of any cutting required to do a simple alignment on the back of a Z, and any shop that tried to tell me cutting the subframe was needed would be a shop i never go back to.

Get the 3 appropriate SPL arms and alignment is essentially limitless.

I installed adjustable camber arms and I'm on Swifts. Adjusting camber often changes your toe. Stock toe bolts may not be able to adjust toe enough to get it back within spec. That is why these exist. To install them, you have to elongate the hole the bolt goes into. That is the "cutting the subframe" dude was referring to.

or
buy the SPL **** and do it right?

"Right"? The way we're discussing isn't "wrong". It's not a hack-n-slash, janky thing, man. I get what you're sayin, but...well...no.

Plus, you're talking the difference between 30 bucks and thousands...

SPC/SPL Toe bolts require you to elongate the toe bolt hole in order to have more adjustments or bring it back to spec, they even come with a template. Not much of a hack job it just requires you to grind down a small amount of the edges. Brought my car to Auto Innovation here in the Bay Area which is a known reputable shop here and even they told me I had to elongate the subframe holes to install aftermarket toe bolts.

Heres a DIY
http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...tall-pics.html

Yup. Same here. Not only did one of the best alignment shops in town, Jack's Auto Alignment and Brakes, tell me that I needed it, the legendary Vitaly at Pitstop (the ONLY place I'll take my cars...) told me I may need it to get it back into spec, too.

OptionZero is right, this is the cheap incorrect way of fixing your toe/camber. Ultimately you are reducing the reliability and also creating a situation where those eccentric bolts will start to loosen up quicker over time.

The SPC bolts are essentially the same type of eccentric bolts as stock, they now have more adjustments due to elongating the hole. Im not sure how that is reducing the reliability as the stock bolts are also prone to slip over time and will slip under "high performance driving" as well. If we are talking about a weekend track car or even a dedicated track car then I would agree this isnt the route you should take, but as a Daily, spirited driving and maybe a track day a year this setup is acceptable and is the route I see most 350z/370z/G37 owners take.

I think you overlooked the primary point of the statement, which is "will start to slip QUICKER over time".

And it's not the bolts I'm referring to that's unreliable, the deformation to the subframe holes is what causes the problem.

I HIGHLY doubt making a hole that is already there 1/4" (if that) larger is going to have any averse effect on anything.

But...again...it's 30 bucks vs thousands for what will be EXTREME overkill for 95% of cars out there.

Respectfully, quality suspension arms are never overkill. I don't think toe bolt vs toe arm / mid link alone represent difference of "thousands of dollars".

I understand what you are saying I just dont agree that a slightly elongated hole will cause the toe bolt to slip quicker over time vs the stock toe bolt which is just as prone to slipping as the aftermarket one. Now if we were talking about it slipping out of spec even more vs stock then that would be something I agree with, but I have done enough research to where I havent seen anyone having any problems.

I have no dog in the fight, it's your car. I'm just trying to give you an alternative viewpoint so that you know the potential problems down the road IF the arise.

I think a $30 toe bolt vs $1200 toe arm/mid link represents the difference maybe not thousands but thats a huge difference plus you need to find a true coilover system. I would LOVE your coilover setup though but I cant justify the purchase for a mostly street driven car lol.

The toe arm and mid link are mutually exclusive, you wouldn't buy both. Toe arms are for those that have converted to true coilovers, midlinks would be for cars that maintain the divorced spring and shock setup.

I understand midlink vs toe bolt is still big price difference, however.

You are 90% more likely to fk up your car on the street than you are on a race track. So the logic that good parts aren't necessary for the street is rather flawed thinking. You are 9 times more likely to hit a pot hole or hard bumps and debris on the street than on a track.

That might be true but find me a thread where a lot of people are complaining about their toe slipping out of spec after driving on the street, id assume you wont find much. I do think good parts are necessary for the street and the SPC bolts are good parts for a street driven Z. Either way you slice it the SPC bolts are the most cost effective way in correcting Toe, if in the future I see some major slippage(highly doubt it) I can still opt to go for the SPL mid link/SPL lockout kit.

Just because someone isn't complaining about online doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Well researching multiple forums is a great way to start, more often than not you can find people complaining about aftermarket parts that arent good. From my research from Z33/Z34/G35/G37 I havent seen anyone complaining about the toe bolt slipping. I respect your opinion though :tiphat: