Voodoo13 rear camber arms and Nismo sway bars?
 

Curious if anyone has the Voodoo rear camber bars on their Nismo or car equipped with Nismo sway bars. They don't have a bend in them so I've heard they will not work with aftermarket bars as they may hit. I don't plan on switching out my swaybars and I'm lowered about .9" in the front, .7" in the rear (so not much). Just want to make sure they'll work with the Nismo bars as they're obviously larger than the base/sport bars.

Really need to get traction with acceleration in control. I do a whole lot of spinning in the first three gears despite no tune and not really having any more hp than stock. The car has been like that since day one, even with new tires (Bridgestone RE-050A). Hasn't gotten any better with coilovers or an alignment. Given there's minimal adjustment, I figure anything I can do to optimize alignment will be beneficial. I was trying to go without swapping out the traction links for toe.

I also plan on upgrading to a wider wheel and tire all around and having the dealership check and see if my VLSD is actually doing anything at all. The new Q60RS has more traction than I do (and LOTS more torque). So something is amiss.

Just buy SPL, don't waste any time with Voodoo

I see that typed a lot but looking for a solid reason to spend an extra $100 when I don't track the car. Other than the bend, 5they seem to be functionally the same. If I don't need the end to clear the sway bar, I can put the money elsewhere. If it's a functional compromise and they'll hit the sway, then yes I'd get the SPL.

I don't track either. Quality is quality.

When you sell them you'll make your money back, it's difficult to sell Voodoos... And $100 more? Find a better vendor, try calling Kyle at Imports Parts Pro.

Still think it's overkill, move back to SPC, and use some lock tite if you want. And you'll get toe bolts too.

From what I'm reading, both use high quality races, NCT or QA1. Both are made in the U.S.A. and the SPL's seem to have more locking redundancy. I'll contact Kyle, he had a very good price on the SPL front upper arms.

I'm not convinced the extra engineering will make a difference which is why I'm looking for information as to just what makes them higher quality outside of sway bar clearance.

Shop around for SPL. You can get deals. Kamispeed won my business.

Yeah they have the best price I've found so far via the weekend sales. Going to wait for Kyle to respond since he's semi-local and a forum supporter.

So am I understanding this right, you want camber arms to help with wheel spin? So are you thinking you have too much - camber and therefore not enough tire contact causing your wheel spin? If so what is your actual camber? At .7 I'm thinking you could at least get to -2.4 which is I think right on edge of spec? Can your coilovers go higher (to oem) just to verify that is your issue before spending all the money on camber arms?

Yes and no. I've had horrible wheel spin issues since day one of owning the car, brand new Bridgestone's, (245/40/19 on the rear), completely stock car. I went and had the alignment checked and it was in spec. I then swapped in the Aragostas and noticed an ever so slight improvement (really more able to control the slide before the VDC kicks in). I'm lowered .9 in front, .7 rear so technically, I should not need camber arms as I should be able to get it in spec.

My front tires are now gone on the inner edge, in six months, and I most likely could have gone another four months before replacing if the alignment had been better. Aftermarket upper control arms have already been ordered as I'm not replacing tires every six months. I don't know if it's a camber or a toe issue. I do not have a good suspension/alignment shop and no one with corner weight scales. I've set the shocks to Aragosta's recommended height as a result. I have a highway jaunt at least five days a week, 25 miles or so.

My rear tires are wearing far more evenly. But the traction issues still persist.

I'm pulling the trigger on new wheels, 19x9.5 and will run 255 series Michelin PSS's. I know they'll help a bit based on reports from other owners switching out the OEM Bridgestones. They're about 3/10th taller than the OEM rear wheels so I'll be able to drop the car ever so slightly from where it sits now.

My real reason for purchasing is that I want to be able to optimize the alignment and not have it compromised by my ride height (as modest as it is) and try to determine the best alignment balance between cornering and acceleration (straight line and coming out of corner). It's a 7AT. I can switch to manual, slide into second gear and floor it. It'll just spin the tires up. Pretty much the same in third. No wheel hop. Car handles fine otherwise. For toe, I guess the traction bars are the solution as I don't want to use the toe bolts and elongate the slot. Plus they slip.

Here's a chart (it's a little hard to read) from my last alignment after installing the dampers and lowering the ride height:
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps5i70p8bd.jpg

I have two power adders and no tune currently as I don't see the point until I get my traction issues under control. A Corolla would own me off the line. So something's not right. I just need to figure out what.

Edit: I've also messed with tire pressure front and rear.

You need a better limited slip rearend. End of story. I know exactly what you are feeling. Not sure what your G37 has, VLSD or open diff. No matter, they are both terrible. I would suggest a Wavetrac or Quaiffe.

It's the VLSD. That isn't what I want to hear! :).

Basically what I have is your Nismo with 12" more wheelbase, two back seats and 400 extra pounds :) Sway bars and spring rates are the same although it appears the Nismo dampers are more firm than the IPL's dampers.

In short, I'd be better off spending money on the LSD vs new wheels, tires and camber arms? I'd really like to use the Wavetrac but that'll require swapping pumpkins out for an open diff pumpkin I believe.

Z1 motorsports is your friend. Take a look. They have an assortment. Pick your poison. Turn off VDC and you can see what is going on. The VLSD will do the one wheel wonder on you with the quickness. With VDC on, it masks the issue by applying the brakes.

Looking at your angles I'm actually surprised there are that good for a .9/.7 drop mine oem height (maybe my springs sagged) were 1 deg front and 1.5 rear both neg of course and I haven't checked alignment since installing my powertrix but set the height only .25 lower than I was so not sure where I am at now but need to check soon. So a -1.3 and -1.6 isn't really bad, I'm surprised they wore so quick but I think the 0 toe didn't help as that is 0 static toe and factory wants some + toe so that could be that it becomes less when driving (dynamic toe) most fronts for rear drive will go to a less angle while driving.

As for traction I have oem size with potenza so4 tires, 7at, stock vlsd, ecutek and I can't say I have a whole lot of issue with wheel spin, granted I don't really drag race but in turn exit etc it hasn't been bad. Maybe not the best way but if you did an ecutek tune you can use the racerom traction control to help control wheel slip, cost a lot less then a diff and you'll want it don't eventually anyway.

Yeah I've often heard toe will kill tires faster than camber. Bottom set are the new numbers after alignment, top numbers are with the Aragostas installed for a week. I'd think with zero toe there'd be less wear? How is toe adjusted up front? Already has an eccentric? Despite being under there all the time I never really looked.

You got to stiffen up your rear end, rear differential bushing replacement and solid knuckle bushing. I have my Nismo sway bar in the rear and sub frame to go along with a Wavetrac rear diff. If you are sensitive to noise then I would forgo the sub frame bushings and you will get so noise from the solid rear diff bushing as well.

Toe is adjusted by the length or the tie rods on the front of the vehicle.

That zero number is static, it means nothing to what your actual toe is under load. Typically a rear drive cars front wheels with a positive scrub radius will have a reduced toe under forward motion. So if you started at 0 now your at -x. Toe Ian the real killer to tire wear and if you are at - toe then that absolutely explains your inner wear issue. Stock sports use +.07 toe (if I'm remembering right) so this helps make up for the reduced toe under load. Also most street setups I have seen will run a - camber and a + toe, my belief is these two will counter each other (- camber = inner wear, + toe = outer wear) so the overall wear will be even, also the car will be more stable as the thrust from the - camber and + toe will make all tires push toward center of vehicle.

But yes - camber with - toe will be the death of your inner tire wear.

Ah ok that set off the lightbulb, much appreciated. I may rotate the tires side to side and go in on Monday and have them adjust front toe. I don't want to be into the cord before I can order new tires.

So I could quite possibly get away with that camber setting and proper toe. And I wouldn't need front control arms either, correct? Money not spent where it isn't needed is a good thing.

As for the rear diff, I definitely don't want solid bushings. My initial goal was a mild drop and to keep most of the stock suspension due to NVH issues. The difference in NVH between a G37 and a 370Z is pretty stunning. Can't imagine what solid bushings would do! Car is low mileage too, I think I just hit 28K so the stock bushings are good (no wheel hop at all).

Because I have an auto, it's my understanding the Wavetrac won't work due to carrier/ pinion offset or something like that. Now I've heard, and I think read on this very forum, the differentials between manual and automatics are swappable with the need to use a different stub shaft on one side. I've not looked into it in super detail just yet. Since I have an auto IPL, my differential to driveshaft coupler is, I believe, a four bolt as well.
What I don't know is:
-Can I just buy a manual base open diff and use it for the Wavetrac even though I have an auto?
-Will I need a new stub shaft or other mods to make it work?
-Do the differential to driveshaft flange/couplers interchange? Can I simply bolt on a four bolt flange to the open diff three bolt?

I know there's an ultimate differential guide thread on this forum, will look it up again.

I'm guessing it'll run about $1600 installed if I source the pumpkin and do some of the leg work myself. Heck I'm sure I could install the pumpkin myself but I'd leave the diff installation into the carrier for a pro as it's been some time since I did one myself. And I have no time.

I'm still going to run it by the dealership and see if the VLSD is even remotely working as it's still under warranty. I'll turn off the VDC on the way home from work and test things out. I've gotten good at walking riiiight up to it's limit but it'd be great if it would just grip and go instead.

No reason to go to dealer to have them check the VLSD just jack up the rear the car in neutral with parking brake off and spin one rear wheel, if it feel tight and the other is spinning in same direction then you have LSD. It's a sealed unit and pretty robust so I highly doubt anything is actually wrong with yours.

As for your angles, yea your a bit out from oem and every car is different and I have only had my z with one set of new tires but typically I find anything under -1.5 will have good wear across the tire for most cars. Hell my last rear set wore even and when I went to align with new tires I found out I was at like -2.2 however oem center position is -1.5 so -2 isn't actually too far out from oem on the rear of a z, but -1.5 is pretty much at my comfort level for street use. I guess I would say -1 from oem center will probably be safe for most cars and -.5 to -.75 from center probably ideal for a performance but street focused angle. That would be my opinion and then just monitor the wear pattern.

My bad on over looking that your ride is an AT...Quaife will fit your bill. Lots of folks are very happy withe that mod!

No worries, looks like I can get a manual diff and swap over the flange anyway so it's not out of the question. Honestly, that'll be a bit more expensive but it will be the easier route with my time constraints and swapping in the whole unit at once.

You can get a whole unit from Z1 motorsports with the flanges.

I looked at that option and it's about $2400 not including installation. Not cheap, that's for sure.

Anyway...I do want to thank everyone for their feedback first and foremost. I was really at my wits end with the traction and then the alignment issues.

I went back to the shop that did the original alignment. They did not have time to get me in to check toe but I'm headed back there first thing in the morning. We went over the original alignment specs along with the OEM specifications and I'm pretty far outside the minimal setting for front camber. I'm at -1.3 and OEM minimum is -1.16. I'm within the minimum at the rear, -1.6, with the OEM minimum being -1.75. And the rears look better although there's a hair more wear inboard than out.

So I did take the advice on the SPL's and ordered the rear camber arms from ConceptZ. I should have those and the front upper control arms in a week. I also ordered wider wheels and tires and am going with a square setup (9.5's all around) which'll shave about 6 pounds up front per tire, and 10 pounds per in the rear.

Once I get everything installed, I'll go back for an alignment and assess my traction issues at that time. If it's still on the really bad end of things, I'll invest in a differential.

Again, thanks for everyone's help!

Went out tonight and turned the VDC off for the first time. That was a lot of fun and something I should have done a long time ago. Almost seemed like I had more traction and drifts were pretty darn controllable for a longer period of time with no rear brake l. This car is very easy to drive sideways and keep things under control.

VDC off always...that is the first thing I do as soon as car is started. You gain better control and traction.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Yeap, If I am driving spirited, VDC is off. I can't stand it. First time I experienced the rear brake crap I was like WTF????? I so want to kick that guy in the nuts that put that crap on the car.

At the shop this morning before heading into work, camber is now -1.9! Not sure what caused the change as I've not touched the shock height and have only checked the spring preload and didn't have to touch a thing. Front camber arms will hopefully be here this week.

Yea at 1 inch drop I think that sounds right. It gets pretty neg pretty quick with the SLA suspension from what I have gathered. I need to re do my ride height again as it's settled lower and uneven which is becoming a pain to get level. You will be outside the minimum if you lower the car that's just normal it's just a matter of what's a general accepted normal at that point (-1.3 doesn't seem too extreme for street). I'm hoping to hit .5 lower than oem and stay in a reasonable camber angle.

One thing I did not do very well was get a good oem height measurement first, I've found the heights but they list from ground to fender which will vary with tire. I measured from rim lip to fender and got 4.5 all around but should have measured from bottom rim lip to fender. Anyone have a oem spec with 19" from bottom lip to fender?

New numbers. Apparently our cars don't hold an alignment well (crappy roads?). Top numbers are as I drove in, bottom numbers are as they now sit. My toe was definitely out and it's on the side with more wear. They did a realignment for free which was very nice of them and they even walked me back to show me a few things. It also helps that they're a mile from my house. I should be able to make it long enough for the new wheels/tires to come in.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps3y7qugyy.jpg

And the rear arms already came in courtesy of Concept Z and SPL. That was quick! Just looked up and SPL's an hour away from me. No wonder :)
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psn2mk0dpt.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...pscqvb6d0j.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...pslkbkrh24.jpg

The front camber arms came in today. Not sure if anyone else has seen the new SPC's in person. Got these as there are no interference issues, no cutting, NVH is kept to stock levels and they were a whole lot less expensive due to Black Friday sale. To the tune of three large bills. The really sucky part is I won't have time to put these on for about 10 days. Pics.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psiobuyktr.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psbwo5iau7.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...pstznkzrhj.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psdwqu43kd.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psaxwtywcq.jpg

Wheels...gotta post the wheels.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psuk6pxsdx.jpg

I managed to get everything installed yesterday. One question...has anyone else found that the SPL links are shorter, even at max recommended length, than the OEM arm? Looks to be about half an inch shorter.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...pslzrcqzok.jpg

Talked to SPL about the shorter arm and they said I can go a bit further out BUT they just found out about a change in arm length (assuming they meant a change in OEM camber arm length) that they were not aware of before. And they do have a longer arm.

Car is at a shop now being aligned. We'll see if it's an issue. I still have the stock eccentric bolt in there and that'll offer additional length adjustment. Would be great if they included the lockout bolts with the kit!

Alignment was a success yesterday and I have very conservative numbers all around. See alignment sheet below. I may have them add a bit more negative camber but I'd like to go without replacing tires once a year. I drive between 8-10K per year these days, mostly highway. New wheels/tires going on tomorrow.

The loud clunk persists and I don't think they took a look at it. Doesn't happen over bumps while driving, it's sharp, squared-edge impacts that cause it. Like the lip of a driveway. Sounds really bad (metallic clunk and a bit of a metallic squeak) so I decided go out, pull the front wheels off, yank out the dampers, and re-torque the SPC arms and make sure everything is kosher. I didn't reuse the little bushing that comes with the stock upper control arms, may throw those in too, dunno. Directions don't really do you any good in that regard.

Once the new, slightly taller tires are on, I should theoretically be able to lower the car a few mm lower and be at the same height. Taking measurements today prior to tomorrow's tire change.

I'm also going to go out later, after fixing whatever noise is being created, to see if the new rear alignment numbers help in the traction dept.

Here's the alignment sheet, current specs are on the bottom (checkmark next to it):
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psnxi2eidh.jpg

And I found the culprit for the loud thunk/metallic squeak/grind. It's the leading bushing/forging closest to the nose of the car.

For those who've changed out their upper control arms, you'll understand. The upper arm is an A arm. The two inboard forgings with bearings connect to the car via a bolt. The forging/bearing basically sits in between the strut bulkhead on one side and sheetmetal on the other. The front forging, one closest to the nose of the car, is hitting the sheetmetal. It's dented it in already.

Now the instructions explicitly say to install either forging end so it's parallel to the sheetmetal/bulkhead. You don't want the bearing sitting at an angle. I did this when I installed them but it looks like the shop that did the alignment did not because they were very much skewed when I took the wheel off. It's easy to skew them while making adjustments.

What I did is loosen the back locking nut on the SPC arms and loosen the bolts holding them to the car. I had a 17mm open end wrench that was the right width and I stuck it in one side of the forging/bearing which kept it parallel to the sheetmetal. I then tightened the locking nut again on the SPC arm. Easy enough. I later found the SPC video below which said to do the same thing.

I did have to take the entire shock out. It's much easier to get everything right and due to the tall adjustment knob on the Aragostas, I couldn't "load" the arm and still have the shock out of the way enough to get a torque wrench in there without pinning the adjuster agains the top of the strut tower. Once removed, I then loaded the assembly by jacking up underneath the brake disk and pushing everything up. I then torqued the bolts and reinstalled everything.

I did a quick run up and down the driveway and didn't hear anything. I'll need to take the car out to see if it solved the issue. Personally, I don't think it did and I'm going to contact SPC to see if they have any insight (update below).

Pics.

You can see the wrench on the left side of the forging/bearing keeping it parallel. This is on the passenger's side, rear forging.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psio2a2hmf.jpg

Here's a shot of the front forging/bearing, passenger's side, closest to the front of the car. You can see where the sheetmetal has been pushed out in an arc as the forging is pushed up. This is with the arm pushed fairly far up.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psg6m4xs3u.jpg

Here's a shot of the damage, with the arm all the way down (decompressed). This is before I took everything out to make adjustments and you can sort of see how the end of the control arm, the forging, is skewed and not parallel to the sheetmetal.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psmiff2py6.jpg

It seems like there's more clearance on the rear side of the control arm. It did this on both sides. I measured the length of each end and there's no difference.

Just found there's a video on the SPC site, with installation on a G35 but it's pretty much the same except we have a different pinch bolt design.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/Lf55rRgBSZY

Ok just got off the phone with SPC. They're coming out with an updated FAQ related to this issue. Essentially it's a non-issue depending on how you look at it. He said straightening the forgings and making sure they're parallel to the sheetmetal alleviates it most of the time but it depends on your caster setting and it can interfere on higher settings. They're also seeing some interference on vehicles that are really lowered (mine isn't) in that spot. He basically said to bend the metal back there at the top back a bit and problem solved.

Ultimately not the answer I'd like to hear and while it'll not really cause any long-term issues I'd rather not have this issue in the first place. As minor as it is (and it's a quick fix if you know to look for it) just take it into consideration before purchasing or installing. It's not enough of an issue, as long as it doesn't further deform or cause any abnormal noises, for me to swap them out to say the Voodoo or SPL.

Hope that helps!

After realigning the forgings to be parallel, I have zero noise and everything's copacetic even over sharp and big bumps. Just make sure they're parallel and you'll have no issues!

On another note, traction is WORLDS better. Just a bit of slip and she goes. This makes me feel better as I can now put that $2K+ I allocated for a rear diff into something else like my 401K or a starter deposit on an RS3 :)

Cool, glad you go it sorted out. Front camber seems very minimal at -.4. I forget spec but mine before any suspension work was -1 and rear at -1.5(which was pretty much middle I remember). Sport street car I would say you could go -1 to -1.5 without a real wear concern.

Bummer on the arms I was really liking the design of those and thought I may go that route once I check my alignment again (now that I changed suspension) but it doesn't seem like they did all their R&D for them. Hopefully I won't need anything since I'm damn near oem height.

Yeah I may add a bit more camber back in once I get the new wheels on tomorrow. I want to see how it feels before I change anything as I'm going from a staggered to a square setup.

I think the SPC's are fine, the shop should have positioned the forgings so they were parallel while adjusting for alignment. Once I made sure they were adjusted parallel, no more noises or issues.

After a few days, I can say the traction situation is much improved. I think a bit of it is down to alignment and a lot of it is due to switching to the Michelins.

I need to lower the car a whopping 2mm in the front and 6mm in the rear to be at the recommended height for the coilover setup and I'll probably get yet another alignment, getting closer to -.10 instead of -.04 where I'm at now.

On the rear, I'd like to subtract a bit of camber and come in at the -1.2 to -1.3 range assuming he didn't need to put them at -1.5 to get my toe in spec. I don't have toe bolts and I made the mistake of not talking to the alignment guy before leaving. I need to make sure the SPL arm length isn't an issue along with no toe bolts. SPL can provide a longer camber arm. If I have to do toe bolts, I'll get camber lockout bolts as well.

It never ends, does it?

And on a final note, over really nasty low-speed stuff, like entering a super steep driveway at an angle, I got a bit of noise from the SPC turnbuckle camber arms. If you purchase these, plan on bending the inboard sheetmetal on the leading arm back ever so slightly above the mounting bolt. Shouldn't have to do this but it is what it is at this point. And it's such a small section of the sheetmetal, literally smaller than the radius of a dime. It's happened only once but still...Then again I didn't have to cut any mounting bolts and there are no other interference issues. Adjustment is super easy and you can easily reach all of the nuts and turnbuckles with open end wrenches. Once the lock nuts are loose, you can rotate the turnbuckles by hand. Pretty quick to adjust things.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...psikrd9a9v.jpg
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