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Edconline's Bose/Nav upgrade
I decided to make a new thread for my build rather than continue to post in another thread I had which actually started as a question.
I have the factory Bose/Nav system and I was never happy with how it sounded. (I have never like any Bose product I have ever heard, so I wasn't surprised I didn't like it.) I added a Wicked CAS Magic Box (Spare tire type) with a 13TW5 and a JL XD600/1 to the system last year, using an AudioControl LC2i for signal from the stock sub output. It added the extra bass that I was looking for, but I still wasn't happy with the overall sound and I wasn't sold on the placement of the sub. All these things led me to say it's time to do it all over, and here we are. As my car is off the road for the winter, and there is a lot of winter left the build will take place over the next several months. I have finalized 95% of the component list for the new build, and parts are now starting to come in. The Plan: Midbass: Hertz HV 165XL 6.5's in the factory door locations. Tweeters: Hertz Mille ML 280.3 in the factory tweeter locations. Rear Fill: Hertz Energy ECX 100.5, 4" Coax in factory rear speaker locations. (**Up in the air between that and the DCX 87.3's) Sub: JL 10W3v3 in a WickedCAS corner mount Magic Box. Processor/Factory Integration: JBL MS8 - Giving me a clean signal from the factory navi and allowing me to run the front 2-ways active. Amplifiers: JL HD900/5 powering the Subwoofer on the mono channel and powering the Tweeters and Rear Fill Coax's with 100W RMS/channel. More than the Tweeters or Rear speakers will need, but more headroom is always nice. JL XD400/4 running bridged to provide 200WRMS for the 165XL's. These mid bass drivers are known to crave power. Power: 4GA power run (KnuKonceptz Kolossus) to the trunk where a distribution block will split into a 4GA supply for the HD900/5 and an 8GA supply for the XD400 amp. In hindsight I wish I had run 2GA to the trunk when I put the XD600 in, however the 4GA should be sufficient going off of conventional amplifier power/wire gauge charts. No plans at this time to replace the battery or alternator or to do the Big 3. I do have the Stillen grounding kit in, so at worst that won't hurt my grounds in the back. Cables: Audiobahn CE 600 RCA's. Awesome looking cables and got them for a great price. Monster XLN 16Ga speaker wiring for the new speaker cable runs. 12Ga for the subwoofer run. Sound Deadening: Dynamat Xtreme and Dynamat SuperLite for vibration dampening. I'll do the outer skins of the doors, and some of the inner skin, as well as some in the spare tire well, trunk floor, hatch lid, and rear wheel wells. I plan to use some MLV and CCF for the doors and trunk floor/spare tire well also, provided that I can get some here in Canada. The goal is to reduce the road/tire and exhaust noise inside the cabin as well as eliminate any possible rattle and improve the Midbass driver performance. HOWEVER - at the end of the day, it is a sports car and despite the previously mentioned goals, weight will remain a big factor. The entire system with all of its components will absolutely not exceed 100lbs of additional weight. An arbitrary number perhaps, but one I have set my mind to. (I've cut at least 100lbs+ of weight in other areas of the car so I don't feel as bad) Some caveats: I don't want to hear anything about rear speakers lol. Installing them is honestly more of just a testing thing for me, it has nothing to do with cost or preference, etc. Don't say 'but you could have spent that $100 on blow and that would be way more fun than rear fill!'. 1) My budget for car audio and powder is completely separate, so no worries there and 2) As I stated, if I don't like them I'll just fade them out or disconnect them. But with the wizardry the MS8 can do, I'm confident they will only enhance the system. Well that's a pretty long introductory post to the build, but that is the gist of it so far! I will be posting lots of pictures as it progresses so stay tuned! Only one picture for now: Oooo Pretty: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...l-hd900-5.jpeg |
I should also add, if you follow this build hoping to see custom MDF amp racks with the amps lit, etc you will be disappointed lol. Back to the whole weight thing, adding wood to a car that isn't a Morgan doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Amps/MS8 will be mounted where the foam piece is in the trunk (where my nismo brace is now) Decoupled from the floor with CCF and fastened with velcro strips. Everything will look 100% factory except for the sub. Actually, that will look factory too if you didn't know better. Those WickedCAS boxes are the truth! |
Hey Edconline they have or can get CCF at JB's Power center, they sell Hush Mat, which is great stuff.
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Nice! I don't suppose they have MLV as well do they? Looking like an order from buddy at sounddeadenershowdown, good product just killer shipping from the US
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I don't think so no.
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Oh well, still not a horrible price from there and I won't need a ton. One of the beauties of using the MS8 is I can run a calibration with my status seats in and another one for the stock seats and save them as favorites. Having the hard carbon backed seats in VS the factory leather ones with way more padding completely changes the dynamics normally. This should solve that issue for good.
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Will the fours fit in the rear spots...in before someone tells you don't do it.
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I 100% guarantee the 4's will fit in the rears. Now ask me how much work I'll have to do to make them fit, I'll have to get back to you ;)
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I would highly recommend considering not getting the 4" fills. It may just muddy up the front stage.
Just something to think about. When I did my build I just had the Focal's installed in front, deleted the 4" rears, and a sub in a Zenclosures box. I don't miss the rear speakers at all. |
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While I'm approaching the build from an SQ standpoint (certainly more so than SPL anyways), it is a bit redundant in the sense that 85% of the time I listen to electronic music, 10% Rap/Hip-Hop and 5% Pop. I have little taste for anything recorded using instruments, so in reality 'staging', 'depth', etc is going to mean very little for the music I listen to. |
Slowly but surely, Canada Post brings the pieces:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...7b55d3a14e.jpg http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...e37ffaa992.jpg http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...648ca73f9a.jpg Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk, likely while driving. |
Now that the interior is stripped running the wiring has been fairly simple. Some changes to my original plan are happening, now the amps will be placed behind the seats, and fastened right into the fuel lines. (Joking - hopefully) This will be the easiest place for access, mounting, ventilation, etc. They will still be hidden as well day to day. The MS8 (It's pretty big! - 12"x8") will be mounted where the factory Bose amp used to be. I know I said no wood in the build, lol, but I will need to make a small base for the MS8 as the floor is anything but flat in that area. Ignore the cabling just lying there loose, tech flex is ordered!
HD900/5 placement (in the green box) drivers side: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...ivers-side.jpg XD400/4 placement on passenger side: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...enger-side.jpg Where the MS8 platform/unit will go: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-placement.jpg Bose amp out of all its cases (just out of curiosity): http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...5-bose-amp.jpg And finally, the Bose tweeters next to the Bose rear speakers. Hard to tell which is which LOL http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-rear-size.jpg |
Today was Dynamat day. That meant tearing down the doors, so I cabled the front speaker locations while the doors were apart. Running the new speaker wiring into the doors was simple. There is a nice big blank spot where you can drill on the car side, and you don't need to drill at all on the door side, just fish it in. Once you remove the door from the car, it's like a 5 min job.
Stripping down the door was more of a process, taking out the glass left me with that feeling like everything wasn't going to be ok when I went to put it all back together lol... Oh well, had to happen. Worth noting in order to fully strip the door down, the glass must come out, and in order for the glass to come out you need power to the window motor to raise it up a bit. I had to temporarily plug my gauge cluster back in so that I could get ACC power again. Dynamat went well, it will be a good first step in soundproofing. I used both Xtreme and Superlite, I had read that there wasn't much of a difference in weight/thickness between the two but that's just not true. It was quite noticeable. I used the thicker Xtreme in the doors where I was most concerned with deadening, and Superlite everywhere else. A fair bit went into the doors as the Midbass drivers will be bumping pretty hard, and the very rear of the trunk floor is terrible for reverb so I used a fair bit of Superlite there. Everywhere else I did was just small pieces to deaden the panel overall. Next step in the sound deadening will be doing the whole trunk floor and door panels with mass loaded vinyl and closed cell foam. If I can get my hands on some thinsulate acoustic, there are a couple of the plastic trim pieces I would like to throw some behind as well. All in all, should be sub 40lbs of total soundproofing. Not enough to make any noticeable difference in performance, but should be a massive difference in SQ and how nice the cabin noise (or lack of) is. Pictures: Passenger door stripped: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...sasembly-2.jpg Little bit of matting on the trunk lid: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...ch-dynamat.jpg Passenger door after matting: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...or-dynamat.jpg Speaker cable fished into door harness: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...r-wiring-4.jpg Speaker wire coming out of new hole in car side grommet: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...r-wiring-2.jpg Trunk matted: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-dynamat-1.jpg |
Have to love those (high quality) bose products. SMH. The install is coming along very nicely are you going to install mat on the doors as well?
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http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-dynamat-2.jpg For the doors I'm also gonna cut a sheet of MLV/CCF for the whole panel. Then for the 6x9 to 6.5 adaptors, I'm gonna make it out of 3/4" or 1" MDF so it acts as a baffle as well as a spacer. |
lookin good. keep the pics coming.
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Was wanting to finish up wiring the power today, and took a look at the 4Ga run I had. It was some cheap no-name cable, and was super light feeling so I decided while I don't want to change the gauge for weight/hiding a huge wire reasons, I was gonna switch the cable out. Ordered 30' of KnuKonceptz Colossus Kandy 4 Ga wire for the new power runs/grounds.
This is the 100% OFC stuff, not the CCA. They oversize everything too, and best of all - it's lime green! Lol. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...HL._SX425_.jpg Another pic of the interior gutted while I clean up cabling: http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...4d2255bec5.jpg |
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Finally made some more progress now that most of the items have arrived and I've had some time to work on it again. I thought customs would never release my sound deadener :ugh2:
I got the MS8 mounted and all wired up, changed out the old 4GA run for the Knu cable, ran RCA's. At this point 95% of the wiring is done, which is nice. Just waiting on one RCA to arrive for the sub feed. I put most of the doors back together and got the glass back in and adjusted. It was certainly a bit of a PITA but not too complicated. Next step, possibly tomorrow, is to start on the sound deadening for the trunk. Doing that and the doors with the MLV/CCF will likely be a bit tedious going around all the different contours, wires, etc. I'm sure it will pay off in the end though! Also I will need to make the MDF speaker baffles for the XL's. Originally I was thinking 1" but I don't need near that much clearance after doing a test fit. Probably going to use 1/4", possibly 3/8". I need to investigate the possibility of water entering the door and hitting the back side of the speaker as well. It looks like the factory ones are protected by the plastic adapter which I am reusing but the new speakers are a fair bit deeper. Pics: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...ms8-wiring.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...657-wiring.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...t-complete.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-deadening.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...53-hv165xl.jpg |
Updates? This looks like a serious project! Great work.
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Great work Ed! Cant wait to hear it this summer.
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Sorry guys, I've been doing some training in the mountains the last couple weeks, lots of updates to follow later this week!
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Updates:
The Hertz 165's are installed with custom MDF adaptors while still utilizing the factory adaptor brackets. http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-installed.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...id-adapter.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-installed.jpg I also got the floor deadened in the section under the seats and rearward. Closed Cell Foam (CCF) and Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV) sheets is what I used here. The forward section of the floor has some factory vibration dampener and the floormats actually act as a sound deadener on their own as well so no need to do more there. Before: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...loor-stock.jpg After: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...r-deadened.jpg I finished the door sound deadening which included CCF/MLF sheeting between the door card and the inner skin as well as some 3M Thinsulate Acoustic foam on the door card itself. I also utilized the Thinsulate Acoustic on pretty near every interior trim panel that had large air gaps behind it that could lead to buzzing sounds with bass and allow road noise in. This stuff is super light and extremely easy to work with. It also eliminates any chance of panel vibration from contact with other panels. It is actually used from the factory on several of the panels in small quantities and a thinner grade. CCF Test fit: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-placement.jpg Thinsulate Acoustic: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...ustic-foam.jpg MLV hung on door: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...r-door-mlv.jpg Thinsulate Acoustic on trunk and interior panels: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...deadened-4.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...f-deadened.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...deadened-2.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...m-deadened.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...m-deadened.jpg I got the trunk finished up with CCF/MLF sheeting in the worst sections (bottom floor and back flat section). http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...lv-trunk-1.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...lv-trunk-2.jpg Finally, I did some more work on my new Radar Detectors and other countermeasures installation which included a fused distribution block in the back for all my CM related accessories. The mounting platform I used for the MS8 provided a great spot for it. http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...se-block-1.jpg Next steps: The Tweeters have FINALLY shipped so once I get those and the Solen 91uF capacitors in (used to protect the tweeters from DC and any turn on pops, etc) then I can get them installed. The rear speakers (now going with the 3.5" DCX 87.3's) are still on back order, so it could be a while longer until those are done. My main gauge cluster hat is wrapped and on the way back so I can hopefully get that all back together soon at least. A couple smaller items that need to be done are installing the time delay relay to turn on my CM board, finishing up some of the wiring for my new radar detectors and wiring in permanent USB charging/audio cables for the phones that I'll have in the car. Hoping to have everything finished up on spring break! |
Updates:
Got the rear speakers installed in the trim panels, some minor dremel work was required but it was a good last minute decision to go back to the 3.5's. Anything else would have required serious work as the clearance for these bad boys is TIGHT as is. http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...led-trim-1.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...led-trim-2.jpg Clearance with panel installed: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...rance-body.jpg I also got some more of the wiring cleaned up, and more of my radar installation done which is happening simultaneously. Finally, I got the tweeters installed using some adaptor brackets I got online. The Hertz tweeters sit fairly high with the protecting cover over them however so the factory covers needed to be modified to fit back on. This left things looking pretty weird so I decided to wrap the factory covers with speaker grill fabric. It turned out pretty well in the end, I actually think it looks better than the cheap plastic factory ones. http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-bracket-1.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-bracket-2.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...test-fit-1.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...test-fit-2.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...ped-bottom.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...rapped-top.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...nstalled-2.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...nstalled-2.jpg Next step, install the capacitors and then mount and wire the amps. Getting closer and closer to testing/calibrating day! I'm hoping to be finished up by the end of spring break :driving: |
Well, it's done! Impressions - incredible.
The JBL MS8 would be a bargain at twice the price. Not only does it provide a completely clean signal from the factory Navi head unit, but what it does for the staging and vehicle space correction truly has to be heard to be believed. If you were to sit in the car with your eyes closed and listen to the music, you would be blown away by how well the center speaker conveys a sense of space and accurately places the musicians and instruments. Only there is no center speaker. Turning the logic 7/processing on the MS8 off then on again is a revelation. With it off, you have what sounds like a clean, good set of speakers playing music in a car, it sound like most better car audio systems I have heard. With it on, it sounds like you are at a live performance. There is no sense that the sound is coming from any specific speaker, rather it is coming from exactly where you would expect if you were at a show. I could go on about the MS8, but I think that conveys the idea. Without this piece, you truly aren't utilizing the potential of any aftermarket system. (IMO) Also, it's worth noting I haven't even touched the 31 band EQ yet, I'm sure there is even more to be had out of this thing. I am very happy with how the amp placement worked out in the end. I was worried that the seats may not go back far enough but it's not a problem, at most you lose an inch on the passenger one. (I drive with my seat well forward enough that it's a non-issue on the drivers side). The MS8 and power board mounting location was great too, lots of clearance even with the Nismo brace re-installed. I have yet to put the car back on the road and do some driving and listening so I can truly gauge how well the sound deadening efforts quiet down the road and exhaust noise, but I can say for sure that there is absolutely no panel rattle/vibration inside or outside the car even with the levels fairly high. In a bold move, I rebuilt the car completely before testing any of the wiring or connections. Everything said and done, I ended up having to swap out one bad cable (iPhone connection) and a bad relay. Everything else worked flawlessly the first time. This was my biggest undertaking yet out of probably 10 different audio installs in various cars for myself and friends, but it has paid off beautifully. Some pics of the final stages of the build: Capacitors for Tweeter protection: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...capacitors.jpg Installed: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-installed.jpg MS8 fitment with brace reinstalled: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...ismo-brace.jpg New WickedCAS corner box installed: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...nstalled-1.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...nstalled-2.jpg MS8 controller and various other switches for goodies in armrest: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...-armrest-1.jpg Wiring finished up front: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...wer-wiring.jpg Grommet sealed up again: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...met-sealed.jpg XD400/4 installed: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...nstalled-1.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...nstalled-2.jpg HD900/5 Installed: http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...nstalled-1.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...nstalled-2.jpg |
Awesome! Glad everything worked out well......
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I really like the tweeter grills covered with speaker mesh. Any concerns with showing dirt / dust and being hard to keep clean?
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No problems yet of course I just did them. Maintenance should be a non issue too, they pop out in 5 seconds and I could lightly vacuum them. |
were you able to fit the rear speakers fine and tune them so they sound good.
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And the MS8 is able to do all things - You don't hear any sound coming from the back, you simply here perfectly placed instruments, vocals, and bass staged right over the dash. |
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I was wondering to remove the metal colored shield plate you just rolled the window all the way up including the slight drop when you open the door then you were able to remove the glass window correct? With the glass out you can remove the metal shield plate? I figure I would just depress the door buttons for the window using a Ratcheting Bar Clamp then unhook the battery to keep the windows fully rolled up. I assume you didn't have to drill the 2 rivets like some of the other member installs? |
I think I know what you are asking. There are 2 bigger nuts at the bottom to remove the glass. Once you can see them, you need to adjust the window to not fully up, not fully down, Then you can remove them. They are hiding behind those black rubber covers adhered to the metal inner piece.
Once the glass is it you can take out a couple more bolts and get the metal plate out by rotating it up from the bottom and away from the door, it has two upper retaining bolts that need to 'fall into' the door then come out. Honestly just check the FSM for the window replacement procedure and follow it, that's all I did and it was simple. An extra set of hands makes it that much faster but I did it alone not too bad. No drilling required, if you have the drill out you're wrong lol If you get stuck lemme know and I can maybe help. Sent from my 6+ |
Just curious why are you putting bass blockers on those tweeters? You're running a MS* which can cross them over with no issue, or using the crossover that came with the speakers would make more sense.
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I'm running them active with the MS8, and planned to from the beginning so I bought raw drivers, no crossovers. I did it that way so I would have more control over the sound and added the capacitors or 'bass blockers' to protect the tweeters from DC during system turn on. That's the only reason, they are several octaves away from the crossover point I have on the MS8, so their only function is tweeter protection, not as a crossover of sorts. Sent from my 6+ |
I'm being lazy here, but I'll do if have to. I was going to remove the metal shield tomorrow for insulating, why do you have to remove the windows?
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So I updated my journal with the new stuff for 2016, but I'll bump this thread too with the audio change I made. I went from the WickedCAS corner sub to a dual 10" rear-firing Zenclosures box. While I do think the corner box is still the best option if you want good bass and to keep the majority of your trunk, the output was lacking for me given how strong my mids and highs were.
I had the Zenclosures unit shipped to me in bare wood and got it wrapped locally in black alcantara with white stitching to match the rest of my interior, with a nice padding underneath. I'm using two JL Audio 10w3v3-4's running in parallel to my HD900 sub channel. Once I re-did the setup for the new subs on my MS8, the instant I put the first track on I couldn't stop smiling. Finally it sounds like what I've been looking for all along. Clean, tight, and TONS of output. Yes, I sacrificed a lot more of the trunk space as well as added another probably 60lbs, but it was worth it to get the sounds I wanted and if need be it's not too hard to pull the box out. http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...pped-box-2.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...pped-box-3.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...pped-box-4.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/edcon...rapped-box.jpg |
Congratulations! Impressive built
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