eZ Navi Delete Project
 

I have been working on a way to delete the factory Navi in my ‘09 370Z while still retaining AC control that did not involve replacing the CAN based AC Amp, modifying existing wiring harnesses, or running new wires to the ECU and fuze box. My proof of concept is shown here. It is a plug-n-play solution to custom navi delete installations using the existing wiring harness. Just last week, the prototype went out for fabrication. I hope to start initial testing early next month. The cartoon below illustrates the current capabilities.

https://i.imgur.com/rU71Tnv.png

The above attempts to show the full capability of the interface, not a specific use case. Typically, only a subset of the functionality would be utilized in a custom Navi Delete installation depending on the type of installation being done, but any or all combinations could be used (with the exception of multiple AC controllers). There is a port for the base model dial AC control module, steering wheel control signals, user out, a Bluetooth module, and two connectors to interface with the wire harness via the connectors that went to the stock HU and control panel.

• Dial Control Connector- Base model AC control module interface
• Steering Wheel Control Connector- Steering wheel control signals from resistive switch network
• User Out Connector - Breaks out potentially useful signals from the wiring harness to be used in custom stereo installs and custom expandability
• Bluetooth - Wireless data interface with apps running on custom HU or Tablet installs

Installations using the base model AC dial controls can be implemented by purchasing a used (or new if you hate money…) dial control module (~$45 on eBay) and making the wiring adapter that connects the dial control module to the interface board (~$5 in parts).

Installations using app based AC control can be implemented using the Cardroid app developed by Fred as seen in this video and the project can be found here. Fred is currently working on a new version of his app that allows for customized control and status layouts and sounds like the perfect solution to these types of custom builds. We have been in contact and are maintaining commonality in our projects so that his app will be compatible with this hardware.

Can you make something that retrains the stock Nav -AC controls and Stereo?

I'm building a Ipad Mini kit to cover the stock screen and keypad controls with the ability to slide out to get to access the stock screen when i need to. The only purpose it will serve me is just to see the HVAC condition and see the volume indicator. If i can get those AC controls/Volume indicator on the ipad then i wouldn't need to have access to it at all.

Perhaps I am missing something because it sounds like if you wouldn't need to access the the stock Navi screen anymore, there is no point to keeping the stock system, right? Why not just remove it and install a modern aftermarket solution? You could install an aftermarket HU with the base model controls and have a tablet mount where the stock screen used to be similarly to other implementations.

What you are proposing with the stock Navi control panel can be done, but would take significant effort as the Infotainment CAN protocol would have to be reverse engineered and the interface would have to be redesigned, and this wouldn't really buy you anything other than using the stock Navi controls to get status on an app.

The eZ Navi Delete system has a data packet format (compatible with Cardroid) it is outputting over the Bluetooth with a type that describes the AC state and the updated Cardroid app would allow for this information to be displayed on the device. Running on an Apple device might complicate things as the Cardroid app is Android based.

i think you are right. I've been trying to work around the stock stereo for so long that the tablet is the last missing piece for me.

How much do you plan to sell?

Subscribed. Can't wait for this. I have been itching to remove my 09 stock navigation unit for a while. Let me know if I can do anything to help out with your progress.

I haven't really figured out how I would make this available to those interested yet. I was always planning on making the firmware and design files available on GitHub for anyone to implement on their own after I confirmed a fully working revision. I realize that soldering this thing could be intimidating. There would have to be significant interest to make the cost feasible to have a low volume assembly done (manual assembly is a bit tedious), but perhaps I could manage...


Just got my PCB's yesterday. Planning on assembling and initial testing this weekend! Hopefully, I will have results after Easter.

https://i.imgur.com/3jxQxZc.jpg

More to come...

Hardware is assembled and working (for the most part). A few hardware tweaks are being considered for the next iteration. The current firmware also has untested code that will need to be refined, but works! I wanted to get more testing done this weekend, but blanked on the fact that it's Easter (Happy Easter everyone!) and the Sharks game 6 tonight.... So I may be unable to focus on useful testing... ::insert drinking emoji here::

https://i.imgur.com/RQGgPpM.jpg

Sweet! I love canbus integration. I don't have factory navi, but may try to add it

Ok, i don't know if i'm missing something but we have been able to delete OEM navi for a long time now, without a need for anything custom...

Hi
as my english is not 100% accurate, tell me if I correctly understood : this PCB allows you to remove the OEM navi (display, buttons, radio) but to keep the AC amplifier. Then just have to add the 3 buttons AC controller to be able to continue to use the AC.
This allows you to display AC functions on an android device.

I'm correct ?

You are half correct.

Yes - there is a way to delete the OEM Navi which was accomplished by swapping out the CAN based AC Amp and replacing it with a base model AC Amp. (which I know you know about because I am familiar with the work you and others have contributed to and done in this area :tup: )

No - the because the above method requires you to add pin connections to existing harnesses to make the connections needed for the base model AC Amp, splice into existing wiring harnesses, and run new wire to the ECU and fuse box.

This solution is designed to be a plug-n-play adapter to the stock wiring harnesses of a Navi based car, maintain CAN Bus AC status and control, and open options for AC control/status on custom apps. A base model AC dial control module can connect directly to this interface, or control can be received from an app in "Tesla" style conversions that remove all physical controls. I am trying to make it as universal as possible and expandable to support future custom build ideas that are linked to the CAN Bus.

In fact, I was planning on pairing this with the Joying 9.7" Android HU, which I see someone is attempting right now!!!! EXCELLENT!

http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ure-heavy.html

Really interested to see how their install ends up! I was thinking of going with the horizontal version (better UI IMO) but I really like to see how it actually fits.

:tup:
Yes, that is one possible configuration. The intent is that you can also control the AC without the physical button through an app on a "tesla" style install if that is the build you are attempting. So, you can control through 3 dial module from base model Z, or through an app. There would be a specific firmware for the desired configuration, but the hardware platform would support it all. Either configuration would also allow for AC status on the app.

It was a while ago that i did this but all i had to do was add a pin to the connector, no splicing into harness

From the current Navi Delete thread I posted that involved swapping the CAN AC Amp and running new wire:

These are things I wanted to avoid in addition to running new wire to the ECU and fuse block. A big part was also wanting to provide a way to integrate status/control into custom apps.

Update - HW Test
 

New PWA and current firmware are working (for the most part). I have a few bugs to work out with the timing and proper interpretation of the Mode form the CAN bus. Also, I have more work to do on the Bluetooth interface. There are things that need to be done on the app side as well that are being examined to complete that feature.

*please ignore all the blue test/debug wires headders... :shakes head:
https://i.imgur.com/jooUb7r.jpg

Illumination in action:


Operation in action: (I dont have my debug screen available, but the changes in airflow can be heard)


:usa::usa::usa:

Any update?

I'd love to see something like this come out for the G37, the tesla style screen SUCKS. and the metra adapter is terrible.

Yes actually!

I was not able to put as much time into this as I wanted over the last few weeks due to other life and work responsibilities. Adulting is lame sometimes...

While playing with the code and trying to optimize the timing, I kept running into problems due to trying to dance around the limited resources and speed of the processor. I used an Atmega 328P (same device that Arduino uses for their basic platform) but kept away from the known poor preforming core library function calls to make the system as fast as possible. After much work, I got the system working reliably most of the time :thumbsdown:... which is not good enough. The problem is that the 328P just isn't fast enough to run the code and filter out all the CAN messages on the Z's bus in time without using interrupts. Using interrupts fixed that problem but generated another by corrupting the timing of the dial control serial stream. When the dial worked, I would lose AC state CAN messages. There would be rolling blackouts for the needed CAN messages and the dial would not properly control the AC system. Basically, I needed one more hardware UART and I didn't want to move to a huge device to get it.

Soooooo..... I moved on to another controller platform! This new device is a 32-bit ARM processor running at over 4x the speed of the 328 with much, much more hardware resources (3x hardware UARTS)! I ported over the code and returned to interrupt driven CAN servicing. So far, everything looks good! I am no longer dropping CAN messages and the dial data is perfect 100% of the time.

https://i.imgur.com/Ljj17pX.jpg

Top right is the original design with the 328 from the vids I posted earlier. The new design is below with the purple PCB and little blue dev board under it with some sky-wires connecting them. Next to it is my Z-Simulator that blasts it with CAN messages to test robustness while everything is running. I also put on a wire harness connector so I can plug this into the car and test (coming soon). With the success I have currently with this new processing platform, I am about ready to spin up a new PCB that supports it.

The new design will support USB and Bluetooth, so +1 feature. :tup:

I bet its hardware is from the same OEM mfg in the Z (Calsonic Kansel). Hell, it might be the same system, or one that functions just like it! When I reverse engineered the Z dial module, I noticed that there is a ton of unused bits being communicated in the serial interface. I'll bet there is some proprietary protocol they made up for these systems and that space is reserved for other systems with more/different AC features (dual climate controls??). At the end of the day, my system is a CAN translator and could probably be adapted to work with other cars with a bit of code work...


Thanks for the interest!
More to come...

radensb, I love what you're doing. Fantastic work.
I'm wondering though, can the 3 Dials M67 4 & 5 connect directly to M72 6 & 8?
Or are they talking different languages?

Different languages and physical layers.

Pins 4 and 5 on the M67 are a completely different voltage signal and protocol than M72 pins 6 and 8. The dial module with M67 uses a RX and TX style of communication with a voltage reference lifted from ground (for noise immunity I imagine). This communication is directly with the AC Amp in base model cars.

The Navi stock controls on M72 operate on a secondary CAN bus (AV-Comm) with the Navi controls and touch screen interface. The Navi head unit has a CAN Bus hub that links the AV-Comm CAN bus with the main ECU CAN bus which is what the Navi based AC Amp (white box under head unit) is connected too. One set of CAN messages live on the AV-Comm CAN bus where certain ones that contain information about the state of the AC controls are translated into messages on the main ECU CAN Bus. This was needed to get the information about the AC system to the head unit so that it could be displayed for the user on the screen.

Would it be possible to turn off the open driver's door beep under ACC mode with this project?
My previous 350Z had a spade lug in the steering column that you could pull to break the circuit. That was simple, CANBUS is a bit different.

I know exactly what you mean... as someone who has spent hours sitting in the car testing this and other projects, I can confirm it is awful. I have never looked into how the signal propagates in the system. It may not be CAN related. The problem is that if it is, there is some device pushing CAN messages that define the state of the chime (on or off). If my device also tries to send that same message and it is different that the other device in the car sending that message, the receiving device will get confused and may throw a code. Think of it like this, two people talking to a third person in a room telling them if he should ask a girl out. One is saying "YES" over and over while the other one is saying "NO" over and over. What's the guy to do!? :icon17:

eZ Navi Delete New Hardware Design Complete
 

For those interested...

Below is the first spin of the updated version using the more powerful ARM based microcontroller. Sorry, I dont have 3D models of all the parts :shakes head: ... Time to order another kit of parts!
https://i.imgur.com/eo5tFVu.png

I’m gonna read into this; I mostly miss my A/C controls & cubby hole from my Base/Touring...the dang smaller hvac controller is intertwined with the Navigation on the Sport Touring model :icon14:
Seems like the fan is always on... :wtf2:

I really, really can't wait for this to be 100%....

Turn car to full on position. Shut door. Lock and unlock with key fob. Open door no beeps.

Board fab and parts kit ordered. Should have first assemblies in a few weeks.
I have spent some more time with the code and focused on Bluetooth related items. The new version assembly should allow me to test the full intended functionality of this design. The app interface is also making progress, so I am told. Really looking forward to testing that out!


Excellent! 1000x thank you

Can't wait for this!!!

Subd


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

If possible can you provide me/post your cardroid apk. I have tried for hours trying to compile it to no success.

P.S Nevermind, I was able to get it working right away on another computer.. Not sure why my work laptop had issues compiling it.

Hows the progress coming along?
The anticipation is building......

WHy not just do workshop 12's kit? Now I don't know if they can do the nav delete but I'm waiting for their G37 setup.

https://workshoptwelve.com/

Any update or is this thread dead?

The Workshop 12 kit does not support the Navi AC system and I wanted an actual car stereo instead of a hacked headphone jack interface. Also, their software is ... not great.

Not Dead! I am still very much planning on working on this. I have put way too much effort in board designs and code. As an update to my last (August?.. Jesus) post, I received the new board spins, assembled them, blew out 2 of the 3 I made because I am special, and confirmed the hardware design on the 3rd. I have been using it in my car for months now. All of the functions are working, although there is still a few bugs in the CAN communication that cause mode selection to foul up and some unexpected AC behavior. It is very rare bug - the best kind... and I have ideas on how to address them.

Life events had hit pretty hard over the last few months along with a spiked work schedule, but I do look forward to getting back to completing this.

My Z has had the stereo removed since April 2019 because I was too lazy to to reinstall it for my 8 minute work commute, so that at the very least is constant motivation to get back at it soon.

Actually I'm not going to be using their headphone jack. I'm going to plug their interface into a external DAC for the best possible audio. Not hacked up at all. They confirmed it'll work. I've played with their interface and it great IMO.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...6SUAZA2P&psc=1

I second that. However, for the DAC be sure to check the power requirements. I'm running the NextDrive Spectra X and had to add a USB toggle since it would pull power from the tablet even when the car was off. But, the DAC increased the audio quality IMMENSELY over using just the 3.5mm...

Another thing, you'll also need a USB OTG hub and a 5pin OTG cable so you can use the DAC and have the tablet charge at the same time. I mine from Newegg (came from China thought).

Workshop is selling the kit with a USB hub that should supply the right amount of voltage.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/02...g?v=1577144752

Keep in mind that USB OTG is a broken standard. Not everyone implements the interface the same and as a result you need a specific combination of device and OTG charge capable hub. I have messed with this a great deal. Even if the device shows its charging, the USB charge handshake may only be allowing minimal charge current, so your device slowly discharges while on. With the Brainiac product, I suspect that it is at least breaking even, but I think you also need to do some work to allow the device to power up and sleep based on the car power state so that you don't drain the tablet sitting in the garage and you have to use the tablet they are using.

The Android car stereo that I installed is ~$45 more than that DAC alone and you still need to buy the android tablet device and the interface box. That's going to be way more than expensive and you still dont have basic car stereo features. This may be acceptable for you, but was a deal breaker for me. Most importantly - its not compatible with Navi models, which is the whole point of my project. Remove the Navi model limitations. Then any system is possible, including the Brainiac.

eZ Navi-Delete Update
 

Success! I know a few of you have been interested in this and I found time to do some more debugging on this project and have been using this setup in my car for a few months now without issue. I have full control over the CAN AC system in real time without any hiccups. I was having issues with the test platform on my bench not matching the reality of the CAN bus in the car and trying to develop and debug the code in the drivers seat was miserable. So, I brought the CAN bus traffic to by bench! I wired up a connector to an Ethernet cable and ran it from my Z's dash in the garage, up into the attic, and down into my office to my bench. I could then turn the car on and scope the traffic as my board was consuming and responding to it! Within a few hours, I found the corner cases that were causing the code to hang up. I am convinced that I would have never been able to reproduce those conditions on my bench.....
:icon17::icon17::icon17::icon17::icon17:

http://www.the370z.com/members/raden...n-ethernet.jpg

Now that this is stable and working, I plan on creating a GitHub repo soon to upload the current state of the hardware and software for those interested. While the code is fully functioning as an AC controller interface, there are a few things that I want to clean up first and document future interfaces I want to add.

Check it out in action in my new stereo install!

eZ Navi Delete Project is LIVE!
 

To all those interested, please check out this thread.

http://www.the370z.com/audio-video/1...ml#post3944694