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Must not have THAT anxious to hear my thoughts... LOL
Anyway, a few pics of the amp install... http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...88944322-5.jpg http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...88944323-5.jpg http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...88944325-5.jpg |
Lol.. I Was anxious..... But I just got mine back from a 5 week stay at the local body shop.. (just resprayed the front end) So I was putting in some seat time! (not computer seat). Glad to hear youre liking them, And yes, You can wail on them, and they smile back at you..lol
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Just in time for a DIYMA get-together near my hometown, too !!
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I did some more tweaking on the system today. I ran the auto TA/EQ and it jacked everything way out of whack. It moved the crossover point way up to 8 kHz, jacked the upper midrange way up high as well as the treble. It was freaking horrible!
For now, I've resorted back to the basics of no TA at all, crossover points back down at 2 kHz, and some more tweaking of the EQ by ear. I have to say, it sounds a lot better with TA turned off. Much fuller, wider and spacious. Go figure. I'm sure I'll get better results with a real DSP eventually. I decided to stream some music from Amazon Prime. I picked Daft Punk. Damn! Someone told me that Nick (the owner of Stereo Integrity) runs these TM65 MkII's down to 20 Hz in his personal car. My head unit only allows me to run them down to 25 Hz (I normally have them at 31.5 Hz). I didn't hear much difference between the two, so I left it at 31.5 Hz. The only other option is running them wide open all the way down, but I don't want to do that. Why chance it, right? But man, that bass! These drivers hit low and hard, even at high volumes, and stay clean, clear and crisp doing so. That bass it tight, punchy and tactile. I now see why some people run these without subs. If the interior of my Z was nice and quiet when traveling at 70 mph, I probably wouldn't be worried about a sub either. But even up to 50 mph, they sound great on their own. Mid-bass, midrange and treble are excellent as well. Very natural, open and smooth with plenty of dynamics and power to smack you with. I can honestly say without a doubt, that this is by far the best sounding front stage I have had to date with any of my systems, and that's saying a lot! Oh, and the dampening that I did on the doors and door cards are doing their job well. No rattles at all, and I was pushing the system rather hard this afternoon. A lot harder than I normally would. I mean, I had these things crankin! So much so that even the rear view mirror on the windshield was vibrating! And while I was at it, I stepped out of the car to see how it sounded outside with the car all sealed up. With the car idling (the HKS exhaust is barely louder than stock at idle), I could hardly hear the music coming through. Sure I could hear it, but it was no worse than the stock system without dampening. That's a good thing. I don't to draw attention to it, so I'm happy. |
Running your mids down that will requires lots of clean power, a sealed door (I mean really sealed well) and a song that will go down that low. Bass I love you hits down to 5Hz, Put On covered a vast range of Frequencies as well.
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Why not manually set up your TA? I haven't met (or read about) one person yet that auto-TA has worked out for.
By the way, I ended up following your lead and putting some hushmat wavebreaker pads behind my woofers. I wasn't sure if they would do much but I'm happy with them. There's not a massive difference in SQ, but the speaker does sound a bit cleaner. It also seems to have eliminated the little bit of rattle I had left in my doors when the midbass really starts to pound. I certainly wasn't expecting it to do that. |
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Yeah, that HushMat works pretty good. Clean mids and vocals can be attributed to that HushMat. I'm glad it worked out for you as well. Makes me feel like I actually did some good on this forum. :tup: |
Just wanted to show a couple more install pics. I wish they had cut the battery terminal cover a little neater as well as the cable run out of said cover. Kind of just crammed in there, but at least it's a quality, solid connection. The tweeter baffle looks great though!
http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...33835304-5.jpg Damn that's a nice beefy tweeter! http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...33835302-5.jpg And just for fun... http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...33835307-5.jpg |
I have a major update on the system...
Ever since I took delivery of the Arc Audio XDi 1200.6 amp, it has had a constant but random issue of one of the right channels dropping out, whether it be the the channel powering the mid-bass or the one powering the tweeter. Either way, it's always on the right side, and it's always random... And it's always annoying! Plus, the rate that I'm going with my system, I need more processing power than the built-in DSP in the head unit provides. So just a few minutes ago, I purchased this... HELIX P Six DSP MK2 https://www.amoplusmagz.com/wp-conte...SP-640x300.jpg |
Nice.... For t/a try this with your dsp when you get it in. http://tracerite.com/calc.html works pretty damn good, and then fine tune by ear.
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In fact, entering the delay, it lessens the distances drastically. Measured is... LT - 36" LM - 40" RT - 50" RM - 53" But after entering the delay into the Helix software, the distances are... LT - 16.59" LM - 12.69 RT - 2.93" RM - 0.0" Aren't they both doing the same exact thing with the same exact results? |
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So it would appear that your DSP wants the relative difference in distance to your most distant speaker and not the actual distance. Ultimately, the distance and time measurements are designed to do the same thing. Edit: I would double-check the manual just to make sure what the DSP wants for time alignment. My DSP uses the actual distance to each speaker to set delays. |
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To more directly answer your question though, both distance and time delay are there to achieve the same objective. Using the milliseconds (i.e. time delay) allows you to do more of a fine-tune. It can come in handy if, for example, you want to shift your sound stage a tiny bit. Reminds me of the judge that said my sound stage was slightly left of center, even though it was dead center... sigh... |
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PRX275 - Memphis Car Audio Thinking of doing as much sound deadening as possible before going the amp/hu route... |
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These in the doors... TM65 mkII Woofer | Stereo Integrity And these in the dash... M25 Tweeter | Stereo Integrity |
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nice
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After watching the video again, I noticed that it looks like Fernando only hand tightened the screws for the left tweeter, and they did NOT install those foam "fast" rings around the mids like they always do. I'm going to have to talk to them about that whenever I get a chance to get back there to swap amps.
I'm tired of having a brand new $1500 DSP amp sitting, collecting dust under my couch. |
So how do those sound compared to some Hertz Hsk 165's bi amped? I broke down and had those installed in the stock locations, with a RF P600. Def a nice step up, but as always, there's room for more!!!! :stirthepot:
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TM65 mkII - Page 40 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum We'll see how much of a beatin these Hertz can take for a couple of months. |
This is all copied from my thread over on the DIY Mobile Audio forum...
Okay, so plans have changed a little. For one, I am NOT installing the Helix amp. In fact, it's up for sale right now. I solved the intermittent issue with my Arc Audio amp. It has been running flawlessly for the past couple of months. Turned out to be faulty crossover switches in the amp. Simply bypass the internal crossovers and everything is fine. So... as far as the subs are concerned, I ordered a pair of the Bazooka BT8024DVC 8" subs like I originally planned. The nice thing is, keeping with the Arc amp, I'm giving these subs a healthy, clean 600 watts instead of the 230 watts if I had gone with the Helix. Honestly, 230 watts would probably be more than enough, but I'm always one for plenty of headroom power. Anyway, I removed the spare tire and strapped the subs down in the tire well, retaining ALL of my limited cargo room. Of course, the main benefit is maintaining a totally stock appearance. The only visible thing is the head unit. Even the "bass knob" for the sub channels is hidden, yet still easily accessible while driving. For the actual install, I bought four 4' tie-down straps to use instead of the much shorter ones that Bazooka supplies with the subs. Reason being that the formed foam floor inserts in the 370Z has slots with velcro straps already going through them to hold down the various tire/jack/toe hook hardware in place. I wanted to use these same slots to "mount" the subs to, and the Bazooka straps simply wouldn't be long enough to reach over to and through those 8" thick foam inserts and still wrap around the subs. And if you're familiar with that non-slip padded lining that's used in toolboxes, I used some of that under the tubes on the floor to keep the tubes from possibly slide forwards or backwards. I've got the subs snugged down pretty darn good and doubt they'd shift around, but just for that little added assurance, I threw some under the subs anyway. Here's a few pics of the BT6028DVC next to the BT8024DVC, just for comparisons sakes. BTW, the 6.5" sub will be going into the girlfriend's little Fiat Pop - It's a great little sub! From this little 6.5" giant... http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...51200782-5.jpg http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...52510037-5.jpg To this... http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...74119150-5.jpg http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...74119151-5.jpg http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...74119154-5.jpg To this... http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...75275175-5.jpg http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...75275174-5.jpg To the untrained eye, you would never know there's anything out of the norm going on back there. The floor is just barely a touch higher than stock. I'll get some better pics in a few days... http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...78238684-5.jpg |
More from the other forum...
Let's talk performance... Bazooka tube subs do not get the respect they deserve. People always complain about them being boomy, being flabby, having soft (not tight or punchy) bass, not being detailed, not extending deep. Even with the little 6.5" Bazooka that I started with, I can easily prove all of the above wrong. In fact, it's been about 20 years since I've listened to a Bazooka tube, and I was once gain shocked at how good these little things can actually sound in a proper system, and when the sub is properly loaded into a corner. If you do a simple Google search, you will quickly learn that 95% of the people who buy these subs do NOT pay attention to the directions on proper placement. Nor do most of them use, ample, quality amplification. If you feed crap into them, you're going to get crap out of them. And if you're going to do a careless, crap install, you're to get crap performance out of them. Anyway, after moving up from the single 6.5 to the single 8, I had to reduce the sub output a bit. I ordered both subs at the same time but one arrived a day late. Go figure. So yes, I had to knock down the output a bit when I swapped out from the 6.5" to the 8", even though I had the 8" wired in series for an 8 ohm load, getting only 300 watts out of the amp vs the 600 watts going into the 6.5. Once I connected the second 8 the following day, I had to again reduce the output a little. I want the gain to be low enough so that it doesn't overpower the front stage as well as allowing a fair amount of range on the "bass knob" for some of those weaker songs when needed. After installing both 8's and getting the rest of the flooring back in the car, I then started the tweaking process, so far just by ear, and quite possibly only by ear. And speaking of the installation, the "woofer" end of the subs are roughly 3" from the back wall of the trunk floor. I tried them an inch closer and an inch further away, but the 3" mark seems to be ideal for these subs in the spare tire well of my 370Z. All crossover duties are taken care of within the head unit as the crossovers in the amp are totally bypassed. Focusing on the subs and mids, I have the subs crossed over at 80 Hz with a -36 dB slope. The mids are crossed at 63 Hz with a -12 dB slope. Gain and time alignment is set accordingly via tape measure and some help from one of my brothers. These crossover points and slopes are not set in stone, but until I come across some music where it doesn't sound right, they're pretty much staying put for the moment. I am also happy to say that I still am not using any tone controls or EQ or bass boost. As far as all of that is concerned, it is all either bypassed or left flat. The integration of the subs and the front stage seem near seamless to me. There are a few older recordings that tend to separate the front stage from the subs a little at times, but the majority of time, it's near seamless. Then again, listening to those older albums on my home system, the upper bass, lower midrange tends to be a little bit on the lean side of neutral, so it stands to reason it would reveal itself this way in the car as well. With that said, 95% of the time, the bass sounds like it's coming from the dash in front of me. Concerning detail and accuracy, I'm quite amazed at how well the Bazooka subs keep up and blend with the SI mids. Vocals have more lifelike weight to them, cellos have more texture, piano has more scale, electric bass has more dynamics and in-your-face slap. As far as outright bass is concerned, these subs deliver. They ARE tight, they ARE punchy, they ARE detailed, and they DO extend fairly deep, deeper than their 39 Hz specs, thanks to proper corner loading, cabin gain, tuning and power available on tap. Classic jazz, new jazz, smooth jazz, fusion jazz, blues, these subs reproduce the bass faithfully with plenty of power, attack and detail. I'm not into all of this new R&B, hip-hop and rap crap that's out there today, but throw on some old school Beastie Boys, Run D.M.C., Slick Rick, Doug E. Fresh, etc, etc, and these Bazooka's thump and bump all day long with the best of them. They definitely sound and perform like larger subs in traditional larger boxed enclosures. Luckily though, they don't exactly sound like traditional ported enclosures either. If anything, they could easily be mistaken as sealed subs with the way they reproduce bass. Playing music that has truly deep, natural bass such as large scale orchestra/symphony music or pipe organ music, the Bazooka's do quite well, but you can definitely tell where they start rolling off, which if I had to guess is somewhere around 30 Hz, not 40 Hz (39 Hz in specs). They dig down pretty deep without effort or strain until the bass just rapidly fades out. Things like the canons in the Telarc Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, the Bazooka's recreate the canons' blasts with loads of impact, power and slam, though the rumble that comes shortly afterwords is a little on the lean side. Likewise with pipe organ pedal notes that extend down as low as 16 Hz or lower (depending on the organ). There's plenty of body and weight, and thanks to pipe organs having 2nd and 3rd harmonics to play off of, it still sounds great. It's just the very low frequencies from 30 Hz on down just are not present. What is there, it's there with plenty of oomph and naturalness. And keep in mind, these subs are brand new, are not fully broken in yet, and have not even been pushed yet. I know that the little 6.5" Bazooka started to come alive after about 1.5 weeks of use. I only have about 2 days on these dual 8's so far. So more tuning and tweaking is in my near future as well as these subs only getting better with time. All in all, I am extremely pleased with this system so far. Everything works together perfectly and the speakers chosen all around well exceed my expectations. I'll have to let some people have a listen and see what they have to say, not telling them any details of the system until after they have a listen. |
And the last bit from the other forum...
Coming home tonight from my father's place, I was listening to Carmen Rizzo - The Lost Art of the Idle Moment via Tidal. I can't remember what song it was, but damn it was making these Bazooka tubes dig deep, hit hard, and display some great dynamics and transients. I have to admit, I honestly wasn't prepared to hear this quality of bass come from these things. I was expecting decent sound at best, but nothing like this. The more I listen to these tubes and the more they break in, the better they're getting and the more impressive they're getting. Don't get me wrong. I'm not hyping Bazooka tubes up or claiming they're the best thing since sliced bread, but I have had some top quality subs in the past, and I can tell you right now that in this system and in this car, these dual 8's are besting the single 12" Image Dynamics IDMAX 12, or single Stereo Integrity Mag 12 v4, or a single JL 12W6, and those were damn good sounding subs. |
Now that I've lost everyone's interest in this thread for going with Bazooka subs, I'll still post an update...
Going on two weeks of running these subs in, they have only gotten better. Definition and speed has improved. Dynamic swing is shockingly good. Low end extension has seemed to "blossom" a bit more, making them reproduce some rather strong deep bass with plenty of weight and warmth. The upper end of the spectrum where they are crossed over (still at 80 Hz @ -36 dB) is much more controlled and clean, allowing them to blend even more seamlessly with the front stage. I really wasn't expecting this level of performance from these Bazooka subs. They definitely perform above their price point, and definitely perform a LOT better than what most people claim (or rather complain/bash) about them. They're not boomy, they're not sloppy, they aren't lacking, they aren't thin, they're not noisy, etc, etc. The fact that I'm getting this level of performance with this level of clean and controlled output in a completely stealth install in a car with extremely limited space, these subs have completely exceeded all of my expectations. I'm certain if anyone here heard my system, you wouldn't believe your ears. You would think there's a large sub enclosure sitting behind your head, out in the open. Of course, this says a lot for the Arc XDi 1200.6 amp as well. Small, compact and efficient, yet packs a lot of clean refined power for the entire system with ample power reserves. |
Version III's are out!
TM65 mkIII Woofer – Stereo Integrity Wow. 9mm xmax vs. the 3mm I have... that's wild: https://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/wp-c...rgy_HSK165.pdf |
No takers on the updated vIII's?
Thinking of swapping out my hertz hsk-165's for these |
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After not having my car for 3 weeks and then getting back in on the drive home...um no... the hertz gots to go!!! Thoughts on those M25 pods on ebay vs. stock location? |
Honestly having had probably 13+ subs the worst sounding of the has been a bazooka tube. Respect or not you get what you pay for and if you like their sound so be it. but they IMO play one tone through all music.
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In calculating their peak diaphragm displacement volume (if I'm getting this right), the TM65 III is at 1258. I've been really happy with my 165's with a noticably lower 390. I just don't know what that means in application. Is it basically having to move 3x less to hit the same frequencies? More efficient, meaning more volume out of the same power? |
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I'll let Ron / others chime in on the technical part. |
2 Attachment(s)
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arrived! TMIII's + M25's: http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1555186722 http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1555186755 |
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On a slightly more technical note, its the point where the speaker becomes non-linear, and distortion starts to increase.
Why build a speaker that can travel past the point of low distortion, you ask? Well, mainly, there are forms of distortion that are pleasing to our ears, and SPL also increases with distortion. There are more technical aspects of it, but I'm not the guy to answer that deeply into it. |
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Your arrogance precedes you, and no one likes an arrogant person. :gtfo2: |
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